Anyone ever receive any vid files made from an HD "red camera"?

[RiffWraith]

To score with, or something? From what I understand, it makes a "digital cinema 4k file." Anyone have any experience with this?

[Sam]

The post production workflow for RED material is still changing and evolving very rapidly, only really in the last 6-9 months have many of the problems with most of the NLE's been ironed out to make it an usable option. I think for our purposes your safest bet would most ertainly be to stick with quicktime crossconverts or similar....4k is massive resolution, unless you are projecting onto a 20+ foot screen I doubt you could tell the difference between a full res 1920 x 1080 Prores HQ quicktime and 4k RED media....not certain, but fairly sure....

My uncle is a film maker and is still shooting on HDCAM as it is still a solid investment with very tangible and easily supported post workflows....he has been waiting on pulling the trigger on RED for a couple of years now - but the rate of development and change is so great that by the time he took delivery of a RED system he orders today, and sets up his post system to deal with the footage, it would all be quite obselete...not to mention he is an underwater cinematographer so the recording media needs to come a long way before he can buy x number of cards that give him a 40min shoot per dive - he has no option of shooting straight to HD.....not a smart investment for mid to longer term yet....for him at least

This is why I wont sink any $$ into dealing with RED until it settles a bit and becomes more mainstream - like our current HD offerings...

[RiffWraith]

Thanks for the reply. Here's the deal:

I am used to the good ol' fashioned way of the way things are done. You shoot at a hard 24, and when you telecine to vid tape for digitizing the film into the Avid/FC/whetever, the film now runs 1/10% slower - at 23.976, because video does not run at 30fps; it runs at 29.97. You now have a 2:3 pulldown on your vid tape, etc. You digitize the material, and regardless of how you work, when you output to vid, you make sure the Avid/FC/whetever is pulled down, and playing not at 30, but at 29.97. And that vid dump will have 29.97 code. And so on.

So, a movie I am scoring filmed with this Red camers, and when I got the vid file with 24fps TC, I was concerned that it might not be playing at the correct speed.. One thing led to another, the dir put me in touch with the pic ed., who explained that there should NOT be 29.97 code - that it doesn't apply here. In fact, this was one of his comments:

"The film was shot and edited at 23.98 fps. So the time code in FInal Cut is 24 fps as it doesn't do drop frame fro 23.98. Why would I use a time code that does not have a frame by frame relationship to the video?"

Which to me, doesn't make sense. But anyway.

The pic editor assured me that the vid file was output at the correct speed, and if I played the vid file at video speed in my sequencer (which is what I am doing) all should be fine. And at the end of the day - the only thing that really matters is that the element I have is the exact same element, speed and frame rate-wise, as the element that they will do the final mix to. So, I guess it's ok. But when the pic editor told me that this was not NTSC (nor PAL), it made me raise my eyebrows more than a little. Is HD not NTSC? And I also want to be sure that the .mov file, which came from this 4k file is in fact not being altered speed-wise. If it skips and/or dupes a few frames, that's ok as that won't affect me. So long as it "catches up with itself".

Hmmmm...

[kdm]

Is HD not NTSC? .

No. NTSC is standard def. Since Red shoots high def only (720p or higher - 4k in this case), it isn't adhering to the horizontal/vertical line format that defines the NTSC and PAL standards.

Frame rate is also higher for 4k, or can be - sounds like they stuck with 23.98? (not sure Final Cut can handle the higher frame rates anyway)

If their down res file is consistent with their timeline, it should be fine.

I worked on a piece shot with a Red recently - killer low light response and detail.

[RiffWraith]

" Since Red shoots high def only (720p or higher - 4k in this case), it isn't adhering to the horizontal/vertical line format that defines the NTSC and PAL standards. "

Ah - that explains it.

"If their down res file is consistent with their timeline, it should be fine."

Right - IF.

Thanks!

[Sam]

Do what I often do with a new editor/workflow situation.....ask them to give you a black video off the same timeline with burned in TC, and a flash frame a 1:00:00:00 and 1:10:00:00. You make sure to see you can keep your nuendo TC chasing their burn and then stick a 1 frame tone pip on each of their flashes. Render out a file that is the length of their video and that includes the one frame tone bursts - get them to import it and check it all lines up in their world.

[RiffWraith]

Do what I often do with a new editor/workflow situation.....ask them to give you a black video off the same timeline with burned in TC, and a flash frame a 1:00:00:00 and 1:10:00:00. You make sure to see you can keep your nuendo TC chasing their burn and then stick a 1 frame tone pip on each of their flashes. Render out a file that is the length of their video and that includes the one frame tone bursts - get them to import it and check it all lines up in their world.

Hey - good suggestion there.

So, if the film was shot at 23.98, and is already pulled down, do I set my project to be 30, or 29.97? Or does it not matter?

[Sam]

Hey Riff, I take it you must have no Nuendo if you dont have 23.98 as an option?

If so - set up for 29.97 - and your code will be second accurate, but not frame accurate...still fine for spotting notes and cue sheets usually though :)

[RiffWraith]

Hey - I use Cubase. Right - no 23.98 option, but if there was, that would be the equivalent of setting the project to 29.97 - assuming it was implemented properly, that is.

Funny - I tried the 30 option, and see no difference from the 29.97 option...:eusa_eh: