WAVES 6.0 Load Speed

[shanabit]

Is it just me or does 6.0 load REAL SLOW on the PC?????

I upgraded to Version 6 here and have noticed a slow down of sorts

Im loading the Gold and Musicians Bundles

[shanabit]

Thanks Ill take a look at it.

Wavshell is just a wrapper that is put into the VST plugins folder. Version 6 is supposed to be an update. I sent them a nice e-mail:D

[shanabit]

Lets see if Im understanding this correctly.

We are basically
1. Unzipping the Waveshell to allow access to the plugin directly
2. We are making a .DLL file for each plugin
3. We are inserting the .DLL file in the shared VST Plugins folder
4. We are deleting the WAVESHELL in the shared plugins folder so Nuendo/Cubase are not looking for the WAVESHELL which is whats slowing things down to begin with

[Sam]

The problem is that the waveshell requires every plugin from v6 to be loaded into memory when cubendo boots (check out the mem usage of the cubendo process, with no project open, with and without the waveshell in the VST folder!)...

I believe the ilok authorization scheme and waveshell combo is the issue here - they do this method so that the ilok auth process happens on all plugs on bootup - and not every time you initiate a plug (its slow as - like the first instance in a session of loading melodyne!) - the bad result is that all the plugs in your waves colection sit in memory everytime your host is open - whether you are actally using the plugs or not...

So yes - the conversion turns the waveshell into all the separate DLL's from the shell - and thus the waveshell vs ilok war doesn't start up!!

[shanabit]

Maybe its just me but it seems kinda stupid to have all the plugs load and take up memory when you in fact may be only using say TWO of the whole bundle

Ill try this method today and see how it goes

[Sam]

Maybe its just me but it seems kinda stupid to have all the plugs load and take up memory when you in fact may be only using say TWO of the whole bundle

Ill try this method today and see how it goes


You have 2 options...

1. Call the brick wall and hear your own voice back...

2. Use the waveshell2vst adapter and got on with working....

Yes the situation is stupid, but thats how it is....I know which option I would be choosing....

[shanabit]

I talked with TIM at WAVES today and he said support was down for whatever reason.

He TOLD ME that there is a NEW WAVESHELL past the 6.0.7 that just came out. They havent made it available in the bundles yet but would send it to whomever was having an issue. I asked why they didnt go ahead and send everyone the link to the file and he stated it wasnt ready yet for mass download. I said so you guys are waiting till someone gets pissed enough to contact you before you let them know there is a new WAVESHELL? No he said LOL Ill wait and see if I get the link here

[shanabit]

So WAVES sends me a link to download, its the the HYBRID bundle which comes with my GOLD bundle, it supposedly has the NEWEST waveshell in it.

It has the SAME ONE as Version 6 GOLD bundle does!! 6.0.7.0 So for giggles I trashed the waveshells, trashed the cubase prefs and loaded up. Shut down Cubase and did a time test for Cubase boot. It took 1 min, 5 Seconds. I only have the Gold and Musicians 1 here

Reaper loads in 3 seconds flat. Sounds liek the guys at tech support dont know whats we are talking about here

Ill go ahead and do the workaround to see if I can get that going

[shanabit]

Heres the reply today:

"Dear Shane;

The Waveshell you have is the latest I guarantee this.
The updated shell that you referred to is this one. This is not the first Waveshell that we released in V6. A Waveshell 6.0.7.2 does not exist.

Cubase taking over a minute to load with our latest shell is a known issue. We are working on improving this with our future release.

Launching Cubase, while having our full line of products installed, can take even up to 4 minutes.


If you need further assistance feel free to contact us or visit www.Wavesupport.net

Best Regards,
Dave Burman
Waves Technical Support Staff

[TAFKAT]

The tech support response is not of any real surprise, I reported the exact issue middle of last year with an almost identical response, so this has been an ongoing issue for probably closer to 10 months now. If Waves haven't addressed it yet , they are not likely to.

The load times and memory usage is actually related to a stricter copy protection routine wrapping each plugin on initialisation by Cubendo, from my understanding, which is quite ridiculous when you come to think of it as the memory usage and load times can be successfully be negated with the Waveshell alternative.. :eusa_whistle:

BTW: This has already been discussed Here (http://cubendo.com/showthread.php?t=660) at Cubendo on an earlier thread in February..

[shanabit]

"stricter copy protection routine wrapping each plugin on initialisation by Cubendo"



If this is the case then WHY does Reaper load in 3 seconds flat ? Trying to learn here.

Pardon my ignorance but I thought the i-Lock was the copy protection??

[TAFKAT]

Pardon my ignorance but I thought the i-Lock was the copy protection??

Hey Shane,

iLOK as well as the Syncro key , are simply the hardware component of the copy protection, there is still a software component that communicates to the iLOK/Syncro.

Waves for whatever reason decided to wrap the recent waveshells in more stringent and resource hungry copy protection , where every plug is individually wrapped on initialisation , that is what is taking the time and the memory.

Not sure why its effecting Cubendo and not Reaper, must be a difference in the way the plugs are being initialised on boot.

The workaround with that 3rd party wrapper is a GOD send , just hope Waves doesn't nuke it.

BTW: Nearly every area of the Cubendo code is reportedly very tightly wrapped in "Dongle Calls", to the extent that if you have an older ( longer) syncro key, which is actually slower , the application is in fact less responsive.

BTW: Even the simplest action in Cubendo is communicating back and forth to the dongle, in the past these have been extremely detrimental to responsiveness, and altho better in the later versions, still detrimental.

I'll give you one example of just how tightly wrapped the code is..

On a studio system where I am time locked on Nuendo 3 for various reasons, I was noticing this annoying lag in simply opening and working with folder tracks , moving the dongle back to a later system with C4/N4 as well as N3 did not display the problem.

I traced it back to the version of the syncro driver not playing nice with the later model dongle key being used ( a dealer key ). How I did that was by clicking on a folder track while the dongle was accidently not in the port, the application instantly reported the key missing and crashed. I realised that simply clicking on a folder track was making Dongle calls.. ??? WTF !

Updating the syncro driver to the latest resolved the issue..

[Andrew J]

Shane - how long does it take in Reaper if you do a "Clear cache and rescan directory" for your VST plug-ins?

[shanabit]

Shane - how long does it take in Reaper if you do a "Clear cache and rescan directory" for your VST plug-ins?

About 1.5 Sec is all

[shanabit]

Thanks Vin

[Andrew J]

About 1.5 Sec is all

Hmm, I wonder what Cubase is doing then?

That's a rhetorical question BTW :D

[shanabit]

Heres whats funny, I had them all showing up in Cubase this afternoon with the workaround. I come home tonight and they arent there in Cubase!!!!!
Ill try the process again. Dont know why it isnt scanning them.

[TAFKAT]

Heres whats funny, I had them all showing up in Cubase this afternoon with the workaround. I come home tonight and they arent there in Cubase!!!!!
Ill try the process again. Dont know why it isnt scanning them.

Shane,

I don't think you'll mind me sharing the info I gave you via PM after you contacted me to help resolve this..

Cubendo will blacklist plugins on occasion, especially those protected by Pace/iLOK if they fail to scan/initialise correctly.

The fix is relatively easy when you know how.

Go to the Steinberg Prefs folder and you will find a blacklist pref file , delete that and restart Cubase, it should rebuild the plug list .

If they blacklist again, its more than likely the pace copy protection, so try updating the Pace/iLOK driver to the latest , and then clear the blacklist and relaunch..

That will in most cases resolve the blacklisting.. :D

P.S: When I first encountered this and asked the brethren for help both online and via official channels, the silence was deafening, mind you there is a K.B article specifically for the issue Here (http://knowledgebase.steinberg.de/148_1.html)

Problem being unless you actually type in "Blacklist" , you will never, ever find the information, so you need to know that the plugins have in fact been "blacklisted" , which kind of puts the cart before the horse.

Second problem is that the information is useless, as it doesn't actually tell you how to resolve it past contacting the plugin vendor if the plugs continue to be blacklisted , who will tell you to contact Steinberg , who will then tell you to..., you get the idea..:willy_nilly:

[shanabit]

I trashed the prefs multiple times. My issue happened to be the PACE Drivers

[Sam]

gotta love ilok huh!!!

I have to say - as much as everyone hates a dongle I have had very few issues with syncro dongles compared to the ilok/PACE paradigm...

[shanabit]

Well dont cha know the FIX is NOT WORKING again and I have no idea why??

Trashed the blacklist, updated PACE, nothing. What gives with this?

It just quit working???

WAVES Version 6. Windows VISTA Home Premium

[TAFKAT]

What quit working, the boot time or the plugins are being blacklisted again ?

[shanabit]

The plug ins were showing up when I looked a the plugins page inside Cubase but they wouldnt instantiate on a track insert. So I deleted the blacklist and rebooted and now they dont even show up in the plugin info inside Cubase

[shanabit]

I wiped out the WAVES folder with the .dll's, redid the fix, dleleted the balcklist and they are working again?? What could be messing with this?

[shanabit]

I ran CCleaner here as I always do and after that I had the SAME problem, the plugs would show in CUbase but would NOT show up on the track, you clik on it in an insert and it does NOTHING? Nothing in CCLeaner that I can see that would be screwing this up

[shanabit]

OK, I re did it again, deleted the blacklist again and now they are back and work
Strange, OK I give up on this one

[TAFKAT]

I ran CCleaner here as I always do and after that I had the SAME problem...

" Doctor, it hurts when I do this.. "

I have no idea what CC Cleaner is supposed to do that would be a benefit in a DAW, actually I personally avoid any of those so called Reg cleaners , as they are an absolute crap shoot at the best of times..

Solution seems simple to me.. :wink: