Solo/Mute issues and repros.

[LEX]

Here is my repro.
Very simple test.


So let's say you have 4 mono LR tracks and 4 mono LR return record tracks.

Source output to Eventide, return input from Eventide.

Set source tracks for solo.
Set return tracks for Solo Def, ready to record.

Record. :)

Now, manually unsolo source 1-2, and un solo def record 1-2 and mute.

Set source 3-4 in solo and set record for def on 3-4, and set to monitor.

No input.

Unsolo all channels. Resolo channels. Now you have input.

This is just so I can directly effect some sound design with my external Eventide.

Please add other tests.

LEX

[BJF]

Create an audio track and a group track. Set the input of the *AUDIO* track to be the *GROUP* track.

Solo the audio track.

Group, and main output are muted.

B

[Thonex]

Create an audio track and a group track. Set the input of the group track to be the audio track.

Solo the audio track.

Group, and main output are muted.

B

ouch!

[Animus]

solo/mute are so fubared. Tell steinberg to just do real life projects and they will see it. It was the first thing I noticed when starting to use N4. Needs a complete overhaul.

[RiffWraith]

Create an audio track and a group track. Set the input of the group track to be the audio track.

Solo the audio track.

Group, and main output are muted.

B

"Set the input of the group track to be the audio track"

How do you do that? You mean route the output of the audio track to the group track?

[RiffWraith]

Here's mine:

Duplicate an audio ch which is in solo
Duplicated ch is in solo AND mute
Mute does not unmute ch

Duplicate an audio ch which is in solo
Duplicated ch is in solo AND mute
Un-solo the duped ch; it is now in mute
Duplicate that ch
Duplicated ch is in mute AND solo
The original ch has lost solo status

Duplicate an audio ch which is in solo
Duplicated ch is in solo AND mute
Un-solo the duped ch; it is now in mute
Duplicate that ch 4 times
Undo 2 operations
Ch 3 & 4 lose solo status, and ch 1 is now in solo

Duplicate an audio ch which is in mute
Duplicated ch is open

[Ade]

solo/mute are so fubared. Tell steinberg to just do real life projects and they will see it. It was the first thing I noticed when starting to use N4. Needs a complete overhaul.

You can rest assured that they know exactly what the problem is.


Create an audio track and a group track. Set the input of the group track to be the audio track.

Solo the audio track.

Group, and main output are muted.

B

I'm also confused by the way this has been phrased. There are two ways to hit a group; buss or send.
If I solo an audio track which is either bussed or auxed to a group, the entire route from audio track to group to buss is solo'd.
Please could you elaborate.

[messianic]

Here's mine:

This on its' own surely is enough to be considered a "bug".


This is just so I can directly effect some sound design with my external Eventide.

Eventide is a compressor no? Well can't you simply set up some kind of output and insert return or are we talking (aux) busses? I've done alot of research on soundcards lately, and although chalk and cheese, the RME Total Mix and EMU Systems Patch mix have very cool ways of achieving what you might want.


ouch!

This behaviour is as you'd expect for a software program at least, the "groups" aren't really groups in the traditional sense but there is a point there. I've personally wondered why there is no mode to route VST outputs to the stereo buss.

[Animus]

Ade,

I think he meant when setting up a audio track and setting the input from a group. When I do that, when I solo either the group or audio track the other mutes.

[Ade]

I see - the input is not 'solo aware'.

[BJF]

I'm also confused by the way this has been phrased. There are two ways to hit a group; buss or send.
If I solo an audio track which is either bussed or auxed to a group, the entire route from audio track to group to buss is solo'd.
Please could you elaborate.



Ade,

I think he meant when setting up a audio track and setting the input from a group. When I do that, when I solo either the group or audio track the other mutes.


Yes, sorry about that. I'm sure there would be even more uproar if this were the case. I've edited the original post for sake of clarity (not to avoid looking even more of a pleb-wit you understand...)

B

[BJF]

I've personally wondered why there is no mode to route VST outputs to the stereo buss.

I would like the ability to route from VSTi outputs to Audio tracks. I mean, without, dummy outputs or groups needing to be created.

B

[messianic]

I would like the ability to route from VSTi outputs to Audio tracks. I mean, without, dummy outputs or groups needing to be created.

Yes all convoluted ways of working. What I was saying though was in the absence of a physical hardware output a VST Output (system bus) should be able to be routed to stereo in the same manner as a traditional console for further routing options. That's my thought.

[Ade]

Yes all convoluted ways of working. What I was saying though was in the absence of a physical hardware output a VST Output (system bus) should be able to be routed to stereo in the same manner as a traditional console for further routing options. That's my thought.

Out of interest - why?

[Animus]

I can answer this from my perspective. I think Logic works cool in this regard. RIght now in Cubendo you have virtual outputs connected to a vsti automatically. If you remove the vsti everything loaded in the outputs as far as plugins get removed. It would be nice to just remove the vsti and load up a different one and reconnect without have to set it all back up again. If you have complicated routings it can be a pain to setup again. Also right now, you can't really save a vsti and save the mixer settings with it for easy recall (unless you use an instrument track but that is limited). Right now you have to Save Selected Mixer channels and then reload and Saving and Loading mixer channels can be hit or miss, being kind of buggy in my experience.

[Ade]

(unless you use an instrument track but that is limited).

Wouldn't you like to see more comprehensive instrument tracks?
The limitation of instrument tracks is that they can hit no more than a stereo output. But in terms of maintaining channel settings, there is the slight ambiguity of removing a VSTi which has 20 outputs of various types; mono, stereo, 5.1 etc. and replacing with a VSTi which is config'd differently.
It's not hard to conceptualize a 'throw away what's not used' type of scheme but there is certainly far more to it than that.
A more comprehensive 'Instrument' track, by contrast, would allow entire setups to be reloaded - possibly in conjunction with associated groups. Pretty much as is possible now - simply applied to the Instrument context.

[Animus]

Intrument tracks aren't multitimbral either if I remember right. I checked them out briefly but they were way too limited for my use. But I agree if they were expanded they would be a good solution. I typically use the same Superior 2 configuration and general plugins in all projects and it would be fast just to load an Intrument Track rather than load from scratch everytime. Good call.

[Ade]

I typically

Unfortunately, these things must accommodate atypical use too. And it is hardly atypical to load VSTi's with differing output configs. In fact, it's the norm.


But I agree if they were expanded they would be a good solution.

Yep. :)

[messianic]

As Terry said in this thread:

http://cubendo.com/showthread.php?t=154

"An application that could transform our multitracked concert videos into 5.1 DVD's".

Although 5.1 isn't a true discrete system the application is still supposed to support multi-channel outputs, however the program can't even support mono instruments without having them via the VST Rack.

Regarding multi-timbral instrument tracks, when re-wire tracks aren't even supported properly, ie., their place in the mixer is not reflected in arrange, it makes you wonder how the program has evolved over the years into some kind of tack-on application.

I've attached a PDF file for those with interest to read, thank you so much for this wonderful forum.