Warning about Uad v5.3 Upgrade

[tunetown]

I no longer have a UAD2 Quad after the upgrade and flash. The device manager sees it but the UAD control panel says "no cards found" .

Apparently I'm not the only one. See here (http://www.studionu.com/uadforums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11464&p=91489#p91489)

:eusa_wall:

Cheers

[TAFKAT]

Hey Peter,

Thanks for the heads up.. :-)

I'll reserve further comment until UA support respond , maybe they will send you a nice voucher for the inconvenience...:eusa_whistle:

[D]

I find it simply amazing that there is always some knucklehead that asks you if you rebooted your machine. Unbelievable.

I have a duo card due to be delivered tomorrow. After reading a few of these issues, I might just be sending it back unopened.

I've never had a problem with the UAD-1 cards.

[Daryl]

I find it simply amazing that there is always some knucklehead that asks you if you rebooted your machine. Unbelievable.

You would think that this sort of instruction was not necessary, but if you look at the VSL forum (for example), you'll find that many Mac users don't seem to understand such things. This is doubly surprising because you should always re-boot after a software install on OSX, whereas it is not always necessary on Windows....!

D

[D]

You're right Daryl. There's knuckleheads on both sides of this issue.

:icon_redface:

[TAFKAT]

Any official explanation from UA yet ?

:pop_corn:

[Michael Tibes]

Everything went smooth here - but if I had read about the issue beforehand, I wouldn't even have tried it... Hope they fix it soon!

Michael

[tunetown]

Any official explanation from UA yet ?

:pop_corn:
No word yet. But both the XP and Vista install have found the card again. I unplugged the computer all day. Just powered back up and they are back.

Stuffed if I know.

[D]

Curiouser and curiouser.

I'm going to make a strange diagnosis, due to your experience.

It's a motherboard/power supply issue. Some power supplies are putting out enough current in the powered down state to keep the card from resetting itself, and/or there are certain motherboards that are likewise passing enough current through certain lines that it is causing a similar problem. Perhaps when rebooting, the motherboard is not truly resetting the cards.

Of course, I could be wrong. Let's see what UA comes up with.

My UAD-2 is scheduled for delivery today.

[Michael Tibes]

Weird stuff here now as well. The UAD2 card is still recognized, but I keep having Nundo locked at full vst power from time to time. I did update my powercore drivers to 3.2.0.39 (from 2.something) and the UAD drivers to 5.3 (from 5.2). Just had an error message which told me to write down the colour of the UAD2 LED and to do a very cold bootup, never had that before.

There seems to be an issue with an old sony inflator for powercore, but even though I updated this to the very last version now I still keep having the lockups. Probably the UAD2 isn't yet as mature as I thought.

Michael

[D]

I wonder what would happen if people opened the Add Hardware Wizard and selected to install the devices that way.

It's the same process. It wouldn't make any difference.

[TAFKAT]

I am not sure I would call this a motherboard/psu issue, as Michael and Peter have identical boards, unless its the PSU keeping the MB in an active state, but I would duggest that is quite out of the ordinary.

It definitely sounds like an issue caused by the firmware update, and as D has noted, letting the system sit with no power has drained the standby power sufficiently from the cards to have reset the firmware on the cards.

I would have thought pulling the cards from the board and reseating in another slot as some already had done, would have been sufficient.

Either way, its a PITA.

BTW: Many of us have no doubt done firmware updates on RME cards on similar systems with no issue of cards not being recognised on reboot, RME do specifically state that the system does need to be shut down, power pulled , and stand bye drained tho. I think this could be the issue with the UAD firmware update , and once tripped , its an arm wrestle getting it back.

Can't wait to hear the official spin..

BTW: Apart from a whole new authorisation system ( why ), and some extra plugins, which you can only get to trial by loading the whole bundle ( why ), and of course the new firmware which has not improved any of the reported performance issues , what does 5.3 bring to the table ?

:pop_corn:

[Animus]

yikes. I havent updated yet and I might just sit this one out til it's proven kosher.

[D]

I am not sure I would call this a motherboard/psu issue, as Michael and Peter have identical boards, unless its the PSU keeping the MB in an active state, but I would duggest that is quite out of the ordinary.

This is precisely what I am suggesting. It seems a rather odd conclusion perhaps, and I did admit that I could easily be wrong about it. It is also quite possibly a PSU power fluctuation issue. If the power wavers too much during the firmware update, it might cause some flaky behavior.

I will note that I just received my uad-2 duo card, and being the brave soul that I am, upgraded to the 5.3 software. I am happy to say that it went off without a hitch, and I am now running happily with the UAD-2 and my 4 UAD-1 cards humming along nicely.

EDIT: It also occurs to me that an improperly seated card could also be the culprit. If there is any condensation present, this might cause issues.

[TAFKAT]

Hey D,

All good points , I have lost count how many times I have had clients systems resurrected by simply reseating the cards after condensation/oxidisation.. :-)

Re your UAD 5.3 install , cool..

Let me guess, you powered down , pulled the plug and let the stand bye drain after the firmware update ?

BTW: Out of interest, what Vid card is in the system, I'm sorry if you have mentioned it elsewhere., I have a hunch that UAD's play nicer with some than others especially when re-navigating low level memory address spaces.

[tunetown]

Still no response from UA. I'm guessing they have their hands full. I'm just glad it's back and working. I will definately do a hard boot for any future firmware upgrades.

By the way, there are still others on my original post at UA forums that are unable to see their card after a hard boot. I think there may still be something more going on.

Cheers

[D]

Actually, I did not pull the plug.

The card I am using is an HIS Radeon 3450 Silent. Unfortunately, it only has one Dual Link DVI output, so I have to move my Wacom Cintiq 21UX over to another system now.

Oh, and you could call me Bill instead of D. :icon_cool:

Cheers Vin.

[Michael Tibes]

After eliminating the offending version of inflator I've continued to work on a song without any further hickups today. The song also loads fine after rebooting the system, therefore I'm somewhat positive. So in my case it might have been an interaction between the UADs and the powercores being upset by an incompatible plugin.

Having to reseat the cards might indicate a shitty housing. Since I continously had to reinstall windows on my very first pc for maybe 2 months before I realized that the graphics card couldn't be seated correctly due the motherboard standoffs being maybe 1 or 2 mm too short, I do have more than an eye on the issue and never had to reseat any cards any more.
I've hardly come across a case / motherboard combination where the cards are really properly seated at first. Not even on commercial boxes like from Dell.

Michael

[Sound Drifter]

Hi Guys, been a while. Hope you're all live and well mixing tons of tunage.

I installed 5.3 and all seems well except for a bug in the 4k channel strip. Running at 88.2 and adjusting the lowpass freezes Cubase5. All other sample rates seem fine. I posted it over at ua's forum if you want the repro. I got tech support on the phone today and they said its a bug.

[Sound Drifter]

Still no response from UA. I'm guessing they have their hands full. I'm just glad it's back and working. I will definately do a hard boot for any future firmware upgrades.

By the way, there are still others on my original post at UA forums that are unable to see their card after a hard boot. I think there may still be something more going on.

Cheers

I got tech support on the phone in a matter of minutes. Try calling them. If you don't want crazy long distance calling charges give Skype a try.

[tunetown]

I spoke to soon. Just went back into the studio for another session and no cards found again.

There is definately something going on here beyond the norm.

I'll keep you posted.

Cheers

[tunetown]

Hmmm, turned off, hard booted killed power and drained the excess power by pushing the on button a heap of times. Booted back up into XP this time. The previous install was Vista. Card found again.

Weird. I'll pull it out over the weekend and reseat.

Cheers

[tunetown]

Card also now back in Vista. I wonder for how long.

Cheers

[TAFKAT]

Peter,

Is there a way to flash back to the previous firmware ?

Any response from UA, or are they in hiding ?

[D]

Hi Guys, been a while. Hope you're all live and well mixing tons of tunage.

I installed 5.3 and all seems well except for a bug in the 4k channel strip. Running at 88.2 and adjusting the lowpass freezes Cubase5. All other sample rates seem fine. I posted it over at ua's forum if you want the repro. I got tech support on the phone today and they said its a bug.

What OS are you running? In fact, if you don't mind, list your spec.

[Sound Drifter]

on the road atm. Here is the thread with specs:

studionu.com/uadforums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11477

Running XP sp3

[tunetown]

Peter,

Is there a way to flash back to the previous firmware ?

Any response from UA, or are they in hiding ?
As far as I know there is no return flash. I have recieved the following response from UA


Hello,

Thanks for the forum link, i am passing this along to our software testers.

UAD2 blinking Red led indicates a problem with recognizing
the card.
When communication between the card and driver is successful,
the LED light on the back of the uad2 card should show "Solid Green".
First action is to try the uad card in a different slot or
blow compressed air in the current slot then re-seat the card.
Open the UAD meter and look under "system information", a graphic
should show the uad card as status "OK".

If still having a problem recognizing the card:
Update your computers motherboard bios.
If using a windows xp machine,as a test, uninstall ram to equal
only a total of 2GB installed.

We may also try a complete uninstall/reinstall of uad driver software:

Goto Start/programs/ Universal Audio and select "remove plug-ins".

After this:

Goto Start/control panels/ systems. Select the "hardware tab" and click
on "device manager".

Find driver under "Audio DSP accellerator" and in the File menu select
"Action" and choose "uninstall".

Turn off computer.

Take out UAd card/cards.

Turn on computer.

Install latest UAD software and shut down computer.

Install UAD card and boot up.

Windows detects "new hardware", follow the standard installation procedure.

Apart from the "compressed air" It's fairly standard stuff. I will reseat over the weekend but it just seems coincidental that this has only occured after the latest upgrade. This problem has never surfaced before.

Lets see what the software testers find.

Cheers

[TAFKAT]

Thats a canned response alright.. , its like the Doctor prescribing a broad band anti biotic when they have nop idea what is going on.. LOL

Update the BIOS,. WTF for ?

RE the compressed air, maybe on a system that has been running for a while and the cards need reseating due to oxidation/condensation/dust , but not on a new system , and especially only after the issue reared its head after a "firmware" update.. :icon_rolleyes:

I love the line about testing not using more than 2GB.. classic.

Clutching at straws comes to mind..

[D]

I have been in contact with James Cigler at UA, and he was very interested in my solution. There is no doubt that I have found the source of the spiking issues. I could probably even fix it if I had access to the source code.

This is unrelated to your issue, which is obviously something else. I would say from what you're experiencing that you definitely have a bad card.

[TAFKAT]

I have been in contact with James Cigler at UA, and he was very interested in my solution. There is no doubt that I have found the source of the spiking issues. I could probably even fix it if I had access to the source code.



Hey Bill,

Sorry Man, you've lost me ..., solution for what exactly ?

Re the spiking issue , do you mean the ASIO munching at lower latency ?

Well come on, don't keep us in suspense.. ;-)

RE Peters continuing drama, the card only went bad after the firmware update, so if its screwed the card, then UA have some damage control on their hands, especially when its happening to multiple clients.

I am hoping they have more in the tank than the canned response they spit out, call me a cynic, but all I am seeing is this... :willy_nilly:

We as a community are experiencing the same MO from numerous circles lately , and its a growing concern, as I am sensing an increasing dumbing down of support levels , to the point that in most cases they are an absolute waste of time for all but a few companies. Although many believe UA are a diamond in the rough, I personally haven't seen anything that shifts my opinion one iota, and this latest B.S with the UAD2's is just the cherry..

Its going to take a little more than a bait voucher , and canned responses..

[Michael Tibes]

The compressed air solution sounds a little desperate... And I thought the memory conflict was happening with UAD1s, not UAD2s? UAs response seems a bit like 'best of troubleshooting in the dark'.

Michael

[D]

Hey Bill,

Sorry Man, you've lost me ..., solution for what exactly ?

Re the spiking issue , do you mean the ASIO munching at lower latency ?I am hoping they have more in the tank than the canned response they spit out, call me a cynic, but all I am seeing is this... :willy_nilly:

Yes, the CPU munching issue. I have it resolved and a solid workaround, which works for me everytime, although in their testing so far at UA, they claim it is not working at their end. I am at 64 samples with the UAD-2 Duo at near capacity and the 4 UAD-1s in the Magma. I am at this point trying to negotiate for something in return for my services as a troubleshooter. We'll see if UA steps up to the plate on that.


We as a community are experiencing the same MO from numerous circles lately , and its a growing concern, as I am sensing an increasing dumbing down of support levels , to the point that in most cases they are an absolute waste of time for all but a few companies. Although many believe UA are a diamond in the rough, I personally haven't seen anything that shifts my opinion one iota, and this latest B.S with the UAD2's is just the cherry..

Its going to take a little more than a bait voucher , and canned responses..

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you here, and I believe I have mentioned this before. For the most part, I am not entirely convinced that the companies are to blame. The internet has seen a general decline in thinking skills as answers, without any background knowledge, become increasingly available.

My contention is that the internet has created a society of enlightened idiots, who can find the answer to anything 24/7 (often the wrong answer), but haven't the critical reasoning skills to either care to find out how an answer was derived, or to seek out those reasons to improve themselves.

I'm pretty sure that my signature quote says a lot about this, as well.

[TAFKAT]

Yes, the CPU munching issue. I have it resolved and a solid workaround, which works for me everytime, although in their testing so far at UA, they claim it is not working at their end. I am at 64 samples with the UAD-2 Duo at near capacity and the 4 UAD-1s in the Magma. I am at this point trying to negotiate for something in return for my services as a troubleshooter. We'll see if UA steps up to the plate on that.

Hey Bill,

Wow, maybe I should have taken that approach in the past more.. :-)

Seriously tho, I have a few questions..

What audio card do you have installed, what is the playback latency compared to the input latency as reported by Cubendo at 064 samples.

BTW: I have also had a system with multiple UAD1's and a UAD2 Quad at lower latencies behaving reasonably well without the CPU munching, but there has been a distinct variable which I'll hold close to my chest for now as well until we compare notes, you can do it offline if you like. Problem is that variable is not available to many, and not available for the more widely used.


Unfortunately, I have to agree with you here, and I believe I have mentioned this before. For the most part, I am not entirely convinced that the companies are to blame. The internet has seen a general decline in thinking skills as answers, without any background knowledge, become increasingly available.

My contention is that the internet has created a society of enlightened idiots, who can find the answer to anything 24/7 (often the wrong answer), but haven't the critical reasoning skills to either care to find out how an answer was derived, or to seek out those reasons to improve themselves.

Well in the past I have called this the "Arm Chair Expertise" Syndrome, where the expertise begins and ends with "Google". I have had numerous discussions with certain individuals on another open forum over the last year or so who relentlessly would target DAW builders for example , claiming we are charlatans for even offering our services without understanding what it is we actually do , and their most common come back was - " Anyone can do what you do with a little computer knowledge and some research via Google".

Of course I say , who am I to argue , knock yourself out :-)

My usual response to most now who take that line , especially those who will then ask the DAW builders directly to help them if they land themselves in the shite is, " Google Is Your Friend".. :-)

This however is not the level of tech knowledge I expect from the Developers/Companies, but unfortunately this has been the case from my experience , most tech support personnel in recent times I have dealt with have a trouble shooting and tech knowledge below what I consider the AES - Arm Chair Expert ..

Heres a recent example that I didn't personally experience , but was outlined to me..

Client : " I have Wavelab 5.0.x running on XPSP3 with the latest update and CDR profiles , and am having trouble with my new "Brand X" DVDR being recognised correctly ..

Hamburger Support USA : " Well V5 is discontinued , XP is discontinued, how can I help you"

I have experienced that level of support in the past, and my response was less than polite , unfortunately, its becoming the rule over the exception now.

Getting back to UA , I haven't seen anything on the recent issues past spin and canned responses , so they to me have landed themselves in the same basket. When its easy they are all smiles, when its a little harder, they display the same MO as the majority.., and we as end users really need to step up and push back..

I have some other examples from recent experience that I'll hold off on for now, as they really should be in a thread of their own..

:009:

[D]

Hey Bill,

Wow, maybe I should have taken that approach in the past more.. :-)

Well, I have yet to hear back from them, so...

I've spent my life becoming better, educating myself. I'm tired of giving myself away.


What audio card do you have installed, what is the playback latency compared to the input latency as reported by Cubendo at 064 samples.

Input: 2.857 ms
Output: 2.880 ms

Echo MiaMIDI on driver version 7.3.


BTW: I have also had a system with multiple UAD1's and a UAD2 Quad at lower latencies behaving reasonably well without the CPU munching, but there has been a distinct variable which I'll hold close to my chest for now as well until we compare notes, you can do it offline if you like. Problem is that variable is not available to many, and not available for the more widely used.

Check the PM I sent you. We can talk about this using another medium.


Well in the past I have called this the "Arm Chair Expertise" Syndrome, where the expertise begins and ends with "Google".

I have referred to this in a number of places as the difference between "readers" and "achievers". I have similarly received much criticism from smaller minds regarding this issue. Of course, they'll never see it for what it really is, because they are too egotistical. It's not all good, nor are we created equal (except for the sperm and egg thing).


This however is not the level of tech knowledge I expect from the Developers/Companies, but unfortunately this has been the case from my experience , most tech support personnel in recent times I have dealt with have a trouble shooting and tech knowledge below what I consider the AES - Arm Chair Expert ..

Ain't that the truth?! I usually end up schooling the tech support people. I don't usually waste my time anymore, I just find a fix.


I have experienced that level of support in the past, and my response was less than polite , unfortunately, its becoming the rule over the exception now.

AFAIAC, it's been the rule for a long time. I recently had a customer call me regarding a problem they were having with a high speed label printer. She was insistent that I talk to the tech person, whom she had spent the entire morning trying to get on the phone. I dismissed her and told her I didn't need to talk to that person, and that I would be there within the hour. She got very miffed. When I arrived, I had the problem fixed with 5 minutes, but do you think she apologized for doubting me?

In the analysis, I explained to her (and my client) that instead of wasting half the day trying to get someone else to help them, to call me first. I tried explaining to them the value of not wasting half a day versus my rate. They just didn't get it.

[Animus]

Just updated to 5.3 without a hitch.

[AlexanderOstuni]

Me too, the first day the update was out.
Ordered my second UAD-2 today, after having sold all my Uad-1s.

Alex

[TAFKAT]

Great to hear....

Not really helping those that hosed the cards with the firmware update, but at least its not across the board.., well good for UA at least who can now simply point the finger at it being systematic.

[TAFKAT]

Lets see what the software testers find.

Hey Peter,

Any more input from UA on this yet ?

BTW: Just read thru a thread over at GS concerning UAD's, yeh I am a glutten , the fanboi / shills in action were astounding. No matter what UA do there is an avalanche of the oh yeh faithful spinning up a storm with the "working fine here " , " best support in the business" hyberbolics to ensure that UA can continue with the same MO unabated, regardless of whether they actually resolve the issues or not.

I am going to start a day counter on how long it takes them to respond to you with something more than the canned B.S they fed you the first time , then we can really guage their "best support in the biz" status.

[tunetown]

No Further correspondence. I'm about to do my first mix in Vista 64. Cards havent vanished again. Fingers crossed.

Cheers

[D]

Hey Peter,

Any more input from UA on this yet ?

BTW: Just read thru a thread over at GS concerning UAD's, yeh I am a glutten , the fanboi / shills in action were astounding. No matter what UA do there is an avalanche of the oh yeh faithful spinning up a storm with the "working fine here " , " best support in the business" hyberbolics to ensure that UA can continue with the same MO unabated, regardless of whether they actually resolve the issues or not.

I am going to start a day counter on how long it takes them to respond to you with something more than the canned B.S they fed you the first time , then we can really guage their "best support in the biz" status.

As a customer of UA, and being in very close contact this week with James Cigler, their Software Quality Assurance Manager, I wouldn't hold my breath about their best support in the business claim. I am less than satisfied with the level of discourse he has provided. I have offered to sell him this machine, for which I have solid workaround to the CPU munching issue, so that they can study why it works on this machine, but they cannot reproduce it. Now, no matter what I sell it to them for, I am likely to take a loss because of the number of hours I've put in to get all of my VSTs and VSTis setup and working the way I like it. They've lost a sale to me, because I was planning to sell the Magma and my UAD-1s and buy another UAD-2. While he claims to believe me about my workaround, he posted in the forums trying to fish for others to verify the fix I have. Personally, I found his last email rather insulting and contradictory, claiming that he had no doubt that I had found a workaround, after saying he was "giving me the benefit of the doubt" about something that made no sense to him and that they could not reproduce.

This comes up only slightly short of calling me a liar, which is bullshit. As much as I like their plugins, they've pretty much soured me on giving them any more of my dollars.

[D]

James Cigler got back to me today, and he has turned me around on this. He has now offered some spiffs for my trouble. I am very pleased with the offer he has made, as it is not a patronizing one, and he was very polite in his response.

[Animus]

Let us know D how it works out. I am curious about this workaround.

You could always do a on screen video demonstrating that it works.

[TAFKAT]

Hey Bill,

It is an interesting workaround, obviously not available for those without UAD1's installed on the system as well, but the main point is that it is indicating that changing the buffering arbitration under the bonnet in Cubase by first shifting the Plug to the UAD1 DSP, and then back again to the UAD2's, is somehow alleviating the ASIO munching.

Very interesting, and hopefully allows UA/Steinberg to start digging in the right place.

Should we hold our breath ?

What I find interesting in all this is that Reaper, who was dragged kicking and screaming into the DSP arena because of UAD's Synchronous processing routines played havoc with the prefered Asynchronous routines of Reapers Anticipative engine, now woks flawlessly with UAD2, whereas Cubendo which worked way better with UAD1 than the competition has now fallen on its sword.

I still have my arms crossed in regards to UA's response in all of this , and I am still waiting for their spin on 5.3's firmware killing off the cards.