Long project load times in C4

[Bman]

Hi all.

I've just started working on my first big project since upgrading to C4 and I'm noticing particularly long load times - longer than would be expected for the amount of RAM I'm using and certainly longer than in SX3

My host registers 1.05GB for C4 and slave #1 running FX Teleport is at 1.2GB and slave #2 at 750MB - ie not a lot yet. With this it takes 11 minutes to load the project, and I can see it stall even loading simple VSTi's like Atmosphere.

The problem is that I've changed a couple of variables at once...
SX3 to C4
slave 1 is now running xp64 rather than xp32
running a novation remote zero on the host

Any thoughts? Is it a C4 issue? It's pretty tedious trouble shooting when it takes so long to load. I've turned off the 3GB switch on my host so it's not that. Any advice would be appreciated. (I know I can move all samples from slave #1 to #2 and uninstall the Remote but I'm not quite there yet!)

Brett

[RiffWraith]

Depends how many instruments you have and how many plugs. 11 min is by no means out of the ordinary. My template is 20+ instances of Kontakt2, all with multiple mic positions spread across three computers w/FX-Teleport, and takes about 14 min. to load. RAM has nothing to do with load times; the CPU does. More RAM = faster laod times = common misnomer.

Cheers.

[Bman]

Hi Riffwraith, thanks for your reply

Actually, I didn't mean that more installed RAM means faster load times, I meant that my long load times aren't (entirely) a reflection of how much RAM my project is consuming.

You mentioned that your template is quite large and takes 14 min to load - how much RAM is being used to load this? (not how much RAM is installed.) Obviously a large template or project using heaps of RAM (loading many large sample libraries) will take a long time to load, but it shouldn't take 11 min to load up less than 3GB worth of instruments (and a good chunk of that 3GB is C4 itself) when it used to take far less time in SX3. Something has changed.

C4 seems to get stuck loading 'channels' regardless of what is loaded into that channel. ie it can take minutes loading a single instance of Atmosphere with a small patch. This is behaviour I never saw on SX3. Perhaps it's the integration of a 64-bit machine, or perhaps it's a new plugin like Omnisphere, or perhaps something like the Novation controller or maybe a combination...or maybe it's C4.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Brett

[Daryl]

In the days that I used FXT, my 8.5GB (3 slaves) template used to take around 10 minutes to load. However, at least a minute of that time was due to the Syncrosoft scanning for VSL.

My current template takes around 18 Minutes to load, but it is over 17GB and it is all on one machine. Again, VSL scanning takes just over a minute.

D

[Bman]

Hi Daryl

That sounds about right. On SX3 with about 4.5GB samples loaded it would take about 5 minutes which is why 11 minutes for under 3GB of samples just isn't right.

When you were using FXT were you using it on 32-bit or 64-bit OS slaves? What about your host computer, was it running C4 or SX3, and under what OS?

Thanks

[TAFKAT]

Hey B,

So after installing C4, so the same sessions are taking longer to load in SX3, or are they still loading up faster.. ?

On a hunch, try updating the syncro driver to the latest.., I know, I now, but give it a spin and let me know.

I have had some instances of application sluggishness resolved by updating the syncro driver...

Also , do you have one of the newer short keys, or one of the original longer keys ?

[Daryl]

When you were using FXT were you using it on 32-bit or 64-bit OS slaves?
Both.


What about your host computer, was it running C4 or SX3, and under what OS?

Nuendo 3, Nuendo4 with XP and XP64, SX3 and C4 with XP.

D

[Bman]

OK, after testing things yesterday I can now report...

First of all a big thank you to Vin and Daryl for your contributions. Vin you got me thinking about SX3 vs C4 comparisons so I loaded up an old project (after adapting and updating all the sample pointers to take into account of recent hardware changes on my slave computers) for some testing and comparisons.

My conclusion was that my long load times in C4 are largely due to a combination of Omnisphere and FX-teleport (not Omnisphere itself), however it does take about 25% longer to load a project in C4 than SX3 regardless (note that this is what I found under my unique combination of hardware and software and may not apply to everyone). If you wish to hear the details then read on...


My current project (which I've only just begun) currently utilises about 3GB RAM across 3 computers; a host running XP32 and 2 slave computers networked using FX Teleport running XP64 and XP32 respectively. It currently takes 11 min to load the project which felt significantly longer than my old projects under SX3 and led me to question whether there were problems with my setup. However, since I had changed a lot of variables between projects (64-bit OS on a slave, Novation Remote Zero running automap, new plugs like Omnisphere etc) I didn't know what was causing the problem. Plus with occasional crashes the long load times were driving me nuts and would only get longer as the project grows. So yesterday I adapted an old project to my current hardware setup and begun testing.

My chosen old project used about 3.3GB RAM across all three computers and took 7 min to load under SX3 but took 8 min 45 sec once saved under C4. This is about a 25% increase in load times in C4. This was consistant and repeatable within a 5 sec margin after re-booting all computers in between loads. OK, so C4 takes longer. Arguably there's more under the hood (yeah I know, arguably :icon_rolleyes:) and so I have to wear that, however my current project takes 11 min to load with less RAM utilised than my old project. Turning off the automap software made no difference, and neither did updating the syncrosoft drivers (although Vin I'll keep an eye on overall app responsiveness and report back). So I tried examining Omnisphere.

I had of course read the reports of long load times for a single instance of Omnisphere and I was indeed one of those badly affected, however since the latest update plugin load time is down to 20 sec which is acceptable. I was running Omnisphere on my 64-bit slave but had recently swapped it to the 32-bit slave at the direction of Spectrasonics. So I added a single empty instance of Omnisphere to my old project (which was written prior to Omni's release), saved, rebooted and reloaded. It now took 10 min 15 sec to load, an increase of 90 sec. In otherwords, add 3 or 4 instances of Omni and load times blow out considerably. So I did the following:

New blank C4 project. Time taken to open a single teleported instance of the Omnisphere plugin = 20 sec. Save project. Reboot
Load the same C4 project now with a single teleported Omnisphere = 90 sec load time (same as the difference above)
New blank SX3 project. Time taken to open a single instance of the teleported Omnisphere plugin = 12 sec. Save project. Reboot
Load the same SX3 project now with a single teleported Omnisphere = 25 sec load time.

Clearly Omnisphere is quicker loading in SX3 (I know it's not supported) but in both versions of Cubase there is a very large discrepancy between the time taken to open a plugin, and the large increase in time taken to re-load/open that plugin as part of a saved project loading. Very odd.

So the last thing to test was the role of FXT itself, so I cleared clear out enough room on my host HDD to install Omnisphere there, and so I found the following...
New blank C4 project. Time taken to open a single local instance of the Omnisphere plugin = 12 sec. Save project. Reboot
Load the same C4 project now with a single local Omnisphere = 12 sec load time. The load time discrepancy has gone.

So that's that.

I've never encountered any issues with teleported plugins before (perhaps I've been lucky?) with either stability or load times, however I'll now keep all instances of Omnisphere on my host computer and this will reduce load times, and certainly can't hurt stability (although I have no evidence yet that running Omnisphere from FXT contributed to any of the occasionaly stability issues I've been encountering since the move to C4 it's not unreasonable to wonder given the above). I'm also relieved that running 32-bit plugs from a 32-bit FX-teleport on a 64-bit OS doesn't appear to be the problem either. It's the not knowing that can be so unsettling. I've searched the net and haven't found any reports of Omnisphere fighting with FXT but perhaps I'll let them know or post this on a forum the Spectrasonics guys frequent.

I hope this helps someone

Cheers - Brett