Overheating. Some advice, por favor.

[RiffWraith]

ASUS P5Q MB
Intel E8400 chip
No OC

Temperatures (idle)

Motherboard 33 °C (91 °F)
CPU 40 °C (104 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 49 °C (120 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 49 °C (120 °F)
GPU Diode 66 °C (151 °F)

--looks ok

Temperatures (pushed, with Cubase playing a ton of samples to the point of dropouts)

Motherboard 34 °C (93 °F)
CPU 86 °C (187 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 98 °C (208 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 95 °C (203 °F)
GPU Diode 68 °C (154 °F)

-- not too ok

According to Intel, the Thermal Specification is 72.4°C. Apparently that means that that is the highest it should ever go.

Intel didn't have an answer for me as to what to do. The suggested a bad MB, fan not installed properly...no and no.

What is the best reccomendation here? I was thinking of one of these (http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=Arctic+Freezer+7+Pro&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title) with some new thermal paste? Should I go for both, or just try new paste with the stock fan for starters?

Thanks!

[LEX]

Artic silver and a better case, new CPU fans. Stock fans are blah!

Also, it needs to be in an area where it gets more air flow.

Where is it stored?

LEX

[RiffWraith]

Artic silver and a better case, new CPU fans. Stock fans are blah!

Also, it needs to be in an area where it gets more air flow.

Where is it stored?

LEX


My three computers are in a closet, but the closet door is open. Better case - no. These temps are with the side panal of the case off, and a small fan blowing in the closet for increased airflow, tho not directly on the MB.

So you are saying both a new fan AND new paste?

[TerryG]

Riff, you've got some serious heat issues with that CPU!

My P5Q and Q9300 Quad Core run about 75-80F... cool
I have to overclock to the max to get my CPU to 110F with the stock retail Intel fan.

Wow.

I'd be swapping that CPU out for a test in another box...

[LEX]

It is in the closet. Even with the closet door open, your are getting heat backup, no fresh air flow.

You need new CPU fan's. That will drop it 5 degrees maybe.

Re thermal paste the CPU's.

Mini fan's do nothing. The air flow is too little to provide any benefit.

I would get an external air conditioner and pipe air into the closet or move the Main CPU to somewhere with better air flow and less additional heat.

LEX

[TAFKAT]

Definitely something not right there..:icon_no:

I suspect that CPU cooler is not correctly seated..

Reseat it with some arctic silver.., as LEX suggested.

The stock fans do suck, but you should be getting around 25-30 at idle, no more than 50 at full load.

BTW: What are you using to get the temps.. ?

If you haven't tried RealTemp, get it Here (http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/)

[RiffWraith]

I would get an external air conditioner and pipe air into the closet or move the Main CPU to somewhere with better air flow and less additional heat.

LEX

Would love to do that, but that's not an option, unfortunately.

I am using EVEREST Ultimate Edition for the temps. I will try Real Temp in a bit to see if I wind up with the same results.

Thanks guys!

[RiffWraith]

Hmmm - not getting the same readings from two different apps:

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/Image1.jpg

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/Image2.jpg

Not incredibly different, but....

[The Guru]

Aren't taking the sides off the cases defeating the fans? :eusa_eh:

[RiffWraith]

Good question, but there is no fan on the side of the case that I removed. Fans are front and back, intake and outtake respectively.

[The Guru]

No shit:eusa_eh:, what I mean is that taking the side off reduces the effectiveness of the fans pushing/pulling the air through the case. :roll:

[LEX]

No shit:eusa_eh:, what I mean is that taking the side off reduces the effectiveness of the fans pushing/pulling the air through the case. :roll:

Yes. That isn't a good idea. I didn't see that.

Basically, the heat is just sitting there.

Let the intakes and out takes do their job and make sure that there isn't cables and drives blocking the air flow.

Again, poor cases (cheaper ones) suck at air flow.
If you are paying 150-200 for a case, then it probably is better.

PSU's will also heat up to. What is the PSU?

LEX

[RiffWraith]

No shit:eusa_eh:, what I mean is that taking the side off reduces the effectiveness of the fans pushing/pulling the air through the case. :roll:

Ok, that's a good point - but I actually thought of that already. Those high reading caused me to take the side off. Once off, I still got the same readings. Sorry if I didn't specify that before.

The PSU is a Corsair TX-650

http://corsair.com/products/tx/default.aspx

[The Guru]

Considering how you use your DAW, I'm surprised you didn't go for a quad when you upgraded.:eusa_eh:

You should definately upgrade the heat sink,:iconyfcys3:.:icon_yes:

[TAFKAT]

Having the side off does not account for the high readings, something else is wrong..

I still say the Cooler is not seated correctly..

I burn systems in with the lids off, and still manage to get idle temps in the 20's, load in mid 40's on Quad systems ..

[RiffWraith]

I still say the Cooler is not seated correctly..



It is. There isn't that much to it, really - just make sure it's oriented properly so the power cable is not so loose it's dangling, but not too tight where as there is no slack; and make sure that all four legs snap into place. Once all four legs are snapped in, and there is no play in the fan assembly, it's seated properly. There aren't really any options there.

Cheers.

[The Guru]

It is. There isn't that much to it, really - just make sure it's oriented properly so the power cable is not so loose it's dangling, but not too tight where as there is no slack; and make sure that all four legs snap into place. Once all four legs are snapped in, and there is no play in the fan assembly, it's seated properly. There aren't really any options there.

Cheers.

Knowing squirrel monkey, he has the thing upside-down and backwards. :icon_rolleyes::eusa_whistle:

[RiffWraith]

Knowing squirrel monkey, he has the thing upside-down and backwards. :icon_rolleyes::eusa_whistle:

Stop that already, please.

[RiffWraith]

This is interesting - I am getting about an 8 °C difference from XP to Vista. They idle identical (CPU and cores), but when I play a somewhat-demanding Cubase project, the CPU temp hits 62 °C in XP, and that same project in Vista Ult 64 hits 70 °C. That normal?

And yes, it's the same machine.

--edit-- fan RPM is the same: 2812

[The Guru]

Stop that already, please.

Only if you get on your knees and beg. :rotfl::098::iconyfcys3:

[LEX]

Did you build it?

LEX

[RiffWraith]

Did you build it?

LEX

Yep.

[LEX]

First guess, too much thermal paste.

2nd, inadequate kind.

Arctic Silver is the best kind.

Next would be the case. Can you take a picture of it, front back and side and post it.

Honestly, when I had an inadequate case, and replaced it with a better one, the temp dropped 5-6C and was quieter.
And that one was liquid cooled.

LEX

[RiffWraith]

"First guess, too much thermal paste."

Good idea, but I didn't add any. The paste is what was already there, and no, I didn't take the fan off, put it on, take it off.....

"2nd, inadequate kind."

That would mean that Intel is shipping their processors with bad paste. Not sure I buy that.


I am going to get a new fan and we will see what happens. I'll take pictures then; I am not going to yank everything out now, only to put it back, only to take it out again when the fan arrives.

Thanks!

[The Guru]

Why just a fan and not a new heat sink? :eusa_eh:

[LEX]

"First guess, too much thermal paste."

Good idea, but I didn't add any. The paste is what was already there, and no, I didn't take the fan off, put it on, take it off.....

"2nd, inadequate kind."

That would mean that Intel is shipping their processors with bad paste. Not sure I buy that.


I am going to get a new fan and we will see what happens. I'll take pictures then; I am not going to yank everything out now, only to put it back, only to take it out again when the fan arrives.

Thanks!

Well, Intel's "paste" is a pad I believe. inadequate, yes possibly.
Yet, under their testing standards, noise isn't a problem and airflow is in the open.
They aren't typically in a closet with multiple machines producing more heat.

Heat in just raises the temp.

So under your conditions, you have inadequate airflow and because of that inadequate paste and airflow.

Considering how many different systems I have built and tested with various thermal paste's and stock paste's(pad), and airflow differences can make 20C differences.

Like Vin said, he burns in with the side open. That is fine, but in a confined space, it isn't.

In one test I did, on an overclocked AMD running Prime95, I never hit above 35C.
But once I put it in the closet, I hit 50. Case open.
When I had the other systems running I was getting close to 60.

Replacing the case dropped my max to about 50 with 3 other systems and many external HD's running.

I also found a MAJOR difference when applying thermal paste. Trying different brands, I made up about 3C going with Arctic Silver.
The thickness makes a difference as well and how it is applied.

Too thick will add 5C, Very thin will reduce another 2-3.
Applying a "pea sized amount" in the center of the CPU and "mashing it" onto the CPU isn't as good as using a "cigarette hardpack" thick card board and spreading it edge to edge.

I think Pea sized, is too much. I go half that much and spread it.
Under "our" conditions, It will keep the temp lower longer.

The benefit I have is and A/C system next to the closet with a tube that goes in front of the closet to blow direct air into the closet and a baffle to angle air into the closet.
The closet door is 90 percent closed. When it gets warm, with 7 systems running (3 outside and 4 in the closet) I hit the air for 10 minutes while working, and it cools it down for another hour.

You might have to consider moving the slaves.

Edit - Replace the heat sink, YES. Stock HS under these conditions are not good.

LEX

Here is my setup:
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j297/lexaudio/ClosetBig.jpg

The one on the far right on top has been replace with a Shuttle PC. They generate little heat.
I am going to replace the others this year.

Oh, also the main system (the black on the left was replaced with an Antec P180. Vin likes the P182 I think)

[TAFKAT]

One last time with feeling..

Those temps are way beyond anything I have ever encountered on a Core2, and that particular chip you have should be idling in the 20's, and not breaking above 45 odd at full load..

Just because you have inserted all 4 clips, does not in any way mean that the heatsink is seated correctly and flush on the IHS..

Its not going to hurt to remove it, and reinstall it using better thermal paste, or even better , throw it where it belongs, in the bin and get a better after market heatpipe cooler.. :D

[The Guru]

You guys are wasting your breath. Riff got his ass kicked by a couple of squirrels and hasn't been the same since. :icon_yes:

[LEX]

One last time with feeling..

Those temps are way beyond anything I have ever encountered on a Core2, and that particular chip you have should be idling in the 20's, and not breaking above 45 odd at full load..

Just because you have inserted all 4 clips, does not in any way mean that the heatsink is seated correctly and flush on the IHS..

Its not going to hurt to remove it, and reinstall it using better thermal paste, or even better , throw it where it belongs, in the bin and get a better after market heatpipe cooler.. :D

Yeah.

Vin has a point. While I don't know what the average temps of the Core2, Vin does and you should really listen to Vin.

Chuck the Heat Sink. Get a real one and thermal.

I wouldn't be surprised if you did not place the HS on right.

Hell, Vin and I know someone who didn't even put thermal paste on and wondered why the computer would shutdown after 5 minutes.

LEX

[TerryG]

Riff... check your temps and fan speeds in your Bios.

Reboot, hold DELETE, get the Bios Setup Utility screen.
Power tab, scroll down to Hardware Monitor, click it.
In a few seconds you'll get a screen of CPU temps, fan RPM's and voltages.

Write it down and compare with your OS temp monitor apps when booted up.
Then, go into Cubase and do some intense stuff, exit and reboot. Any residual excessive heat should still register somewhat in the Bios monitor...
Compare all your readings and determine which you can trust.

[TAFKAT]

Hey Terry,

BIOS temps always read higher as the CPU's are actually under a % load, not idle, don't ask me why, I don't know exactly, but that has always been the case..

RealTemp is the most accurate

[Animus]

Riff, you've got some serious heat issues with that CPU!

My P5Q and Q9300 Quad Core run about 75-80F... cool
I have to overclock to the max to get my CPU to 110F with the stock retail Intel fan.

Wow.

I'd be swapping that CPU out for a test in another box...


damn! Notice he said Celsius! Over 200 degrees fahrenheit! You can cook food with that heat!

[Animus]

You definitely need a proper heat sink and Arctic Silver. No one really uses the pieces of shit heatsink and fans that come stock. But you very well could have a bad board or cpu. I would first install a good heatsink and Arctic Silver.

[D]

Personally, instead of wasting your money on noisemaking fans, I'd go liquid.

I have found my reserator system to work flawlessly. It generally keeps the CPU temps below 34 degrees C under the toughest conditions: several hours under BF2142 or any other CPU/GPU intensive application. I'm running an Opteron 185 FYI.

[D]

You definitely need a proper heat sink and Arctic Silver. No one really uses the pieces of shit heatsink and fans that come stock. But you very well could have a bad board or cpu. I would first install a good heatsink and Arctic Silver.

Nonsense. A proper application of the stock HSF works fine in almost every case.

[LEX]

Personally, instead of wasting your money on noisemaking fans, I'd go liquid.

I have found my reserator system to work flawlessly. It generally keeps the CPU temps below 34 degrees C under the toughest conditions: several hours under BF2142 or any other CPU/GPU intensive application. I'm running an Opteron 185 FYI.

Liquid is a pain. A good case and a good Heat sink will do the job.

LEX

[Animus]

Personally, instead of wasting your money on noisemaking fans, I'd go liquid.

I have found my reserator system to work flawlessly. It generally keeps the CPU temps below 34 degrees C under the toughest conditions: several hours under BF2142 or any other CPU/GPU intensive application. I'm running an Opteron 185 FYI.


Nonsense. A HSF system works fine in almost every case. Why do you need liquid when you can just used the stock HSF? :icon_rolleyes:
:D

[LEX]

Opteron's run hotter than the current Intels AFAIK.

LEX:crap:

[TAFKAT]

..any good heat pipe based air cooler will be within a few degrees of the better H2O systems , and will better a lot of the consumer level units without all of the extra work that is attached to running water.

Unless you are over clocking to the extreme , water is a waste of time, and when I mean water, I mean full on H2O kits , not commercial bolt ons, which don't buy you anything over a good quality heatpipe cooler / low speed silent fan.

[LEX]

So what is the status?

LEX

[RiffWraith]

So what is the status?

LEX

Ordered an Arctic fan/hs today. Will let you guys know when I have it installed.

[LEX]

Arctic Silver is thermal paste.

LEX

[RiffWraith]

I didn't say Arctic silver. I said Arctic. Arctic is a fan/hs combo.

[TAFKAT]

Arctic Cooling (http://www.arctic-cooling.com/cpu1.php?p=4&disc=)

[RiffWraith]

Put the Arctic cooler in, with the paste it came with. Which, btw, there was ALOT more of as compared to the Intel paste.

Orig:

Motherboard 33 °C (91 °F)
CPU 40 °C (104 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 49 °C (120 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 49 °C (120 °F)
GPU Diode 66 °C (151 °F)

down to:

Motherboard 35 °C (95 °F)
CPU 32 °C (90 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 42 °C (108 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 42 °C (108 °F)
GPU Diode 66 °C (151 °F)

and:

Motherboard 34 °C (93 °F)
CPU 86 °C (187 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 98 °C (208 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 95 °C (203 °F)
GPU Diode 68 °C (154 °F)

down to:

Motherboard 36 °C (97 °F)
CPU 41 °C (106 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 50 °C (122 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 50 °C (122 °F)
GPU Diode 68 °C (154 °F)


From 40 °C --> 86 °C

to 32 °C --> 41 °C

Holy crap!

Makes me think that something was wrong with the Intel part, and/or the paste. And it WAS installed properly. :eusa_whistle:

Thanks again for all the input. :wink:

[LEX]

Don't use all the paste. There is usually extra in case you swap a fan, or need to repaste it.

Too Much paste can make more heat.

Glad to hear it worked.

Again, most people are using the CPU's to maybe 20 percent, not 90 percent.


Even gamers use different Heat Sinks.

Keep us in the loop.

LEX

[RiffWraith]

Well, all the paste was already applied; it's not like it came seperately and I had to put it on. So, I don't think there is toto much - besides, with temps like those, there really can't be too much paste.

Cheers.

[Animus]

Put the Arctic cooler in, with the paste it came with. Which, btw, there was ALOT more of as compared to the Intel paste.

Orig:

Motherboard 33 °C (91 °F)
CPU 40 °C (104 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 49 °C (120 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 49 °C (120 °F)
GPU Diode 66 °C (151 °F)

down to:

Motherboard 35 °C (95 °F)
CPU 32 °C (90 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 42 °C (108 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 42 °C (108 °F)
GPU Diode 66 °C (151 °F)

and:

Motherboard 34 °C (93 °F)
CPU 86 °C (187 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 98 °C (208 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 95 °C (203 °F)
GPU Diode 68 °C (154 °F)

down to:

Motherboard 36 °C (97 °F)
CPU 41 °C (106 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 50 °C (122 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 50 °C (122 °F)
GPU Diode 68 °C (154 °F)


From 40 °C --> 86 °C

to 32 °C --> 41 °C

Holy crap!

Makes me think that something was wrong with the Intel part, and/or the paste. And it WAS installed properly. :eusa_whistle:

Thanks again for all the input. :wink:

I told you stock HSF and paste are total crap, not to mention those corkscrew clips are a total pain in the ass.

[LEX]

I told you stock HSF and paste are total crap, not to mention those corkscrew clips are a total pain in the ass.

I said the same, to a lesser degree. NAH! :kissbutt:

LEX

[TAFKAT]

:D :eusa_whistle:

[Animus]

I said the same, to a lesser degree. NAH! :kissbutt:

LEX


No need to kiss my ass Lex. :icon_redface: