Cubase 5: Full 64 Bit Support ?

[TAFKAT]

After watching the full demo video again I took note of the specific focus at the end of Cubase 5 having full 64 Bit support.

Of course the spin offered in the video simply stated the benefits of 64 Bit memory addressing , but was very vague in the availability of VSTi's that can actually take advantage of the addressing. They even had, and correct me if I am wrong, snaps of the 32 Bit versions of the HALion Orchestral Rompler , while intimating the above stated advantages , which is misleading at best.

So I started digging into what extra 64bitness is in C5 over the "Preview" version that we have been fumbling around with in C4 , has there been a concerted effort to improve the VST Bridge, which was absolutely unworkable in a real session when using more than a few 32 bit plugins, and depending on the plugin, even that was a challenge at times.

Digging further, has there been a resolution on Rewire, can encoder plugins now be used with the VST bridge, I would suggest the MPX and Zplane aspect has been resolved with the new Pitch focused plugs and features so thats cool , and of course QT, but that is not really a Steini issue.

None of this information is available in the downloaded manuals, which refer to an extra Vista64 manual on the DVD .

The response to anything in regards to 64 bit at C.net have been almost farcical , but there has been a clear admission that little to no work has been done on one of the most important aspects IMO, the VST Bridge.


The VST Bridge is "still" a transitional aid until your favorite plug-ins are replaced by true 64-bit versions

Needless to say this is the same catch 22 we had with the so called Preview version , simply put, the VST bridge is extremely resource hungry, and unpredictable to the point of being useless in my experience. It was/is nowhere near as developed as SONARS Bitbridge that although does impose a resource overhead, is still at least usable to a far greater extent. If the VST Bridge is in fact the same as used in the Preview version, I dare say the Full Version is simply window dressing. For those realistically wanting to navigate there, 90+% of 3rd party plugins not having native 64 bit versions as yet, and I am not feeling a stampede in that direction either.. :-(

Lets hope that the Full 64 Bit Support hasn't simply meant they removed the 'Preview" banner off the release.., and that it is not really any further developed than the last in regards to making the transition with 3rd party VST2.x Plugs / VSTi's..

[messianic]

Hey TAFKAT

How do all the 2.4 plugs go, is that the question that needs to be asked?

[The Guru]

Since bit bridge was the major problem with the 64-bit version and it hasn't been touched, nothing's changed, IMHO.

[LEX]

Nothing has changed except the version number.

Vin, Chris B said something like this after a user complained that the Bit Bridge was still a problem.

"Get 64bit versions of the plugins then".

Hmm.

64bit. More like 63bit.

LEX

[The Guru]

Nothing has changed except the version number.

Vin, Chris B said something like this after a user complained that the Bit Bridge was still a problem.

"Get 64bit versions of the plugins then".

Hmm.

64bit. More like 63bit.

LEX

Vin quoted Col. Klink.

[LEX]

Tones2

"Bitbridge was a mess in the preview version. I doubt it's changed much. "

CB
"Hello Tony,

Then buy native 64 Bit Plugins. Some "Quircks" we have solved from our side. But still there are no native 64 bit plugins a certain risk will remain."

Full thread:

http://cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=110076&highlight=

LEX

[LEX]

"Sorry dudes,
the current version of the VSTBridge is the best we could do. All the crashes and bugs are a combination of design issues of the VST2 API and the Windows API.
All you can do is trigger the plug-in manufactures to update their plug-ins to 64 bit.

cheers
arne"

LEX

[TAFKAT]

I noted in my first post that the responses were farcical.., I didn't even want to link to the thread as its just a Deadendo.

What I found priceless is that the old guard at C.net don't even know who Arne is..:rotfl:

Whether you are a fan of SONAR or not, the Cakewalk developers and reps would never dare give response of that calibre in regards to the 64 bit implementation, what an insult, its always someone else's fault but Steinbergs..

If that is "the best they can do" , then they need to go back to the drawing board, as in its current state its a joke compared to the Cakewalk Bitbridge , which is achieving a far better integration across both DX and also VST 2.x Plugs/VSTi's.., and I have a suspicion they would be using the VST API for that aspect of the application.. :eusa_think:

What he is saying is that they are not lifting a finger to develop the bridge further , and anyone who has played with it knows full well its a POS..

That hole Full Vista64 Bit support claim may hold up to the letter of the law, but scratch the surface and the truth becomes evident the boys are on a spin cycle ..:nono:

[Daryl]

It may seem a very small thing, but I couldn't find anything in the Cubase 5 manual about Frame Offset. Without this, any user of an LCD TV (for example) would have to use QuickTime 64bit, which doesn't exist. It also means that the new video engine is still useless, even if that exists.

D

[TAFKAT]

Hey Daryl,

You can use Quicktime 32 on XPx64/ Vista64 , whether it works in C5:64 is another question tho.

I can't see Apple falling over themselves to develop a native 64bit version of QT for Windows in a hurry , for obvious reasons , as it would seriously hamper their play for media domination on OSX.

I am betting the Video engine in C5 is identical to C/N4

[Daryl]

Hey Daryl,

You can use Quicktime 32 on XPx64/ Vista64 , whether it works in C5:64 is another question tho.

I can't see Apple falling over themselves to develop a native 64bit version of QT for Windows in a hurry , for obvious reasons , as it would seriously hamper their play for media domination on OSX.

I am betting the Video engine in C5 is identical to C/N4
Sorry Vin, I obviously wasn't clear. I already use the 32bit version, but that doesn't work in Cubase 64 bit.

D

[TAFKAT]

Sorry Vin, I obviously wasn't clear. I already use the 32bit version, but that doesn't work in Cubase 64 bit.

D

Hey Daryl,

Thanks for confirming that..

Interestingly it was noted by the unofficial rep at N.com that the proposed new video engine will be QT only, so that leaves a few question marks as to the potential of the 64 bit version on Windows unless Apple plays ball..

Interesting days ahead..

I believe that what you are doing, which is running the 32 bit version of Cubendo on a 64 bit O.S, with samplers like VSL ensemble that have their own independent 64bit memory addressing even when running within the 32 application, is a great way to circumnavigate the current catch 22.

I heard some chatter that Digi have something along that line in the works as well , not overly surprising as I can't see them navigating to a native 64 bit platform in a great hurry.

[Daryl]

I heard some chatter that Digi have something along that line in the works as well , not overly surprising as I can't see them navigating to a native 64 bit platform in a great hurry.
However, RTAS is so appalling that I can't imagine anyone actually wanting to run more than a few instruments using that format. :icon_eek3:

D

[psvennevig]

Apart from all the shite with 64 bit version of C5, I guess you agree with one fact.
For one of the market leaders in music software to change the state of 64 bit software from "preview" to supported software makes a big change for Microsoft, Apple, makers of plugins and makers of ReWire etc. etc.
So this is an important step even if the software itself hardly can't be used with 3rd party stuff right now.

One important change at least for C5 x64, MPEX4 64 bit support.

Pål

[kdm]

Am I missing something, but isn't the bit bridge just a stop-gap temporary way to support 32-bit plugins? The point of going 64-bit bit is to run all apps *and* plugins at 64-bit. VSL is an exception to the rule, or bypassing the current limitations in supporting its' own address space.

It seems to me that Cubase 5 can in fact be officially (and technically) 64-bit. It's the plugins that are holding us back now. A better bit bridge would ease the transition, but it seems to me it's hardly the solution imho.

The biggest problem now is how long it will take for all of our plugins to reach 64-bit status, and QT being the biggest missing link for video support. That's why I'm moving my farm PCs to 64-bit (eventually) and staying 32 on the host. I doubt we'll have the option of going truly 64-bit for another 1-2 years.

[Softy]

I'm wondering whether or not The OS X world will get there first, not that the same plugins are available there. I haven't been looking at it though, because of the X-scaling and latency issues. Can anyone on the Mac side shed a little light on the current status of "64-bitness" in the OS X world?

[kdm]

Good question Softy. I am thinking Snow Leopard might be full 64 bit? I also saw a comment on GS from a Cubase user that C5 is now OSX/64-bit ready - fact or fiction?

[psvennevig]

OSX SNow Leopard is the first real 64 bit OS from Apple.
Older OSX versions have not been 64 bit all the way. Like drivers for instance in Leopard runs in the 32bit mem space. And more than 4GB of RAM is supported by the use of Intel PAE.

Steinberg will not have a 64 bit DAW for OSX before they have finished porting code to Cocoa, my guess is that we'll have OSX Snow Leopard by then.

P

[kdm]

I thought Snow Leopard was only a couple of months away, but I assume C5.1 might be the first Cocoa version of C5? I am also guessing it's safe to assume 5.1 won't be here until summer, at the earliest.

[TAFKAT]

For one of the market leaders in music software to change the state of 64 bit software from "preview" to supported software makes a big change for Microsoft, Apple, makers of plugins and makers of ReWire etc. etc.

So this is an important step even if the software itself hardly can't be used with 3rd party stuff right now.


Hey Pal,

I am not as convinced as you that it will have that much of an impact.

SONAR has been full 64 bit for years, and there hasn't been a stampede, I doubt Steinberg stepping up and removing preview is going to even cause a ripple. I maybe wrong , but I doubt they have that much influence.

Realistic Real World usability atm is dependent on an efficient bridge, and in that regard the removal of the preview moniker has done nothing in that regard.



One important change at least for C5 x64, MPEX4 64 bit support.

Thanks for confirming that , that is definitely a step in the right direction.

Why isn't that information more easily accessible ?

[psvennevig]

I know we make fun and complain much, but do you actually know how large the install base of Cubase is?

If it cannot make a change alone, it will at least do it together with Sonar.
And there wasn't really a x64 OS out there for the common uses until Vista, and we both know that most won't go 64 bit until Windows 7 and OSX Snow Leo.

I do not have the answers. But one day we'll be there.
I use one 64 bit app. It is Adobe Lightroom 2.2, its great, and much better in 64 bit when working with a lot of pictures.

P

[olamo]

And there wasn't really a x64 OS out there for the common uses until Vista, and we both know that most won't go 64 bit until Windows 7 and OSX Snow Leo.
P

How's that? XP 64 is no less usable for "common uses" ( whatever you mean by that) than Vista. On the contrary, most applications I use 32 or 64bit, works a lot better in XP64 than in Vista. Who's to blame for the lack of interest in XP 64?
Microsoft, for the most part, as they targeted XP64 towards corporate users.

The only obstacle I have had in the past is lack of certain drivers, but most drivers and apps released for Vista 64, also works in XP 64.

[TAFKAT]

I know we make fun and complain much, but do you actually know how large the install base of Cubase is?

Hmmm, a fair idea, what does that have to do with it.. ?

What percentage of that is a demographic that is requiring the 64 bit memory addressing is the real question when it comes to viability for the devs to step up.

Who's making fun , I am 100% serious when I say that the most important aspect to get the momentum happening to the 64 bit transition was a reliable and efficient bridge, Steinberg have totally ignored it, so who do they think is actually going to be using the 64 bit version past running a few 3rd party plugins before it collapses in a heap..

SONAR's bridge is usable to the point of it being a non event for those that do not push the systems to the edge , that is the point I was making. Steinbergs VST bridge is a hack and patched farce in comparison..

Lets see where the dust settles in the next few months, the real indicator is whether we see some announcements in regards to 3rd party developers stepping up to the VST / 64 Bit plate..

I haven't been following NAMM that closely, was there any major movement in that direction this year ?

Quick Edit: I second that XPx64 runs rings around Vista64, and it was as commonly available as Vista64.., the problem isn't the O.S availablity , its the software devs sitting on their hands, as 64 bit drivers have been available for many if not most audio hardware for quite a while..

[The Guru]

64 bit support means absolutely doodley squat. MCE is an un-supported OS but Cubase works great on it. All it really means is that they've tested the app on it and we all know what that means in real words, nothing.

[psvennevig]

What I meant with Vista 64 was the "first" x64 os, wasn't that XP x64 is bad.
Of course not, its great!
But XP x64 was only available as an OEM release.
Also very few developed applications directly for it.

Vista 64 at least are getting software (which of course works just fine in XP 64).
Adobe PS CS4, Lightroom, etc. etc. etc.

P

[Animus]

What I meant with Vista 64 was the "first" x64 os, wasn't that XP x64 is bad.
Of course not, its great!
But XP x64 was only available as an OEM release.
Also very few developed applications directly for it.

Vista 64 at least are getting software (which of course works just fine in XP 64).
Adobe PS CS4, Lightroom, etc. etc. etc.

P

Photoshop CS4 is working awesomely in Vista here. 64bit makes a world of difference as I use Photoshop professionally. Memory was the biggest holdup for Photoshop, as it is for audio as well. I am afraid we are still another 2 to 3 years away from 64bit for audio though.