5 piece rock band recording methods

[shanabit]

Everyone seems to work differently with their DAW in regards to recording say a 5 piece rock band if recording them all at once on ONE song. Which method describes how YOU work? Or if you have a diff way, please describe

* 1-5 assume your using ONE project for the song

1. Record the song, give yourself a space of say 4 bars to the second take. basically record, space, record space down the timeline for all your takes

2. Record in STACKED mode down the timeline giving yourself multiple takes
on the same track, splice and dice after the fact. Punch in later

3. Record a section say the verse in stacked mode then move to the chorus in stacked mode. Splice and dice when done

4. Same as #3 but using the cycle record mode to loop around the section

5. Make folder tracks with say multiple tracks in the folder and record enable the whole folder for the whole song or any combination of the above using the folder tracks.

6. Create a NEW project for each take and label the project as take 1, take 2 etc. Edit and combine afterwards

[Doublehelix]

I use method one, where I will leave a space between takes in a single CPR file.

I use stacked recording for multiple guitar solo takes, for example. I cannot imagine having an entire song with every instrument and microphone in stacked mode! Wow! That is a lot to manage!

[HowlingUlf]

haha I'd go nuts with any other method than #1. :icon_eek3:

[Devil_07]

#2 for several reasons. When you record everything in multiple passes on top of the same tracks each time, if you've used a click track, comps and edits become soooo much easier.

When you get that "hot" take, change its color so when you switch to multi-lane view for edits and comps, you have a good starting point with all the parts that are a different color than the default parts.

[Jikky]

#2 for several reasons. When you record everything in multiple passes on top of the same tracks each time, if you've used a click track, comps and edits become soooo much easier.

When you get that "hot" take, change its color so when you switch to multi-lane view for edits and comps, you have a good starting point with all the parts that are a different color than the default parts.

I don't record bands, but getting into a habbit of doing #2 could make for a pretty fast workflow. What Devil_07 said sounds spot on to me.

[Andrew J]

#2 for several reasons. When you record everything in multiple passes on top of the same tracks each time, if you've used a click track, comps and edits become soooo much easier.

When you get that "hot" take, change its color so when you switch to multi-lane view for edits and comps, you have a good starting point with all the parts that are a different color than the default parts.

OK as long as the band is nicely quantised :icon_lol:

[resonator]

If you really have to do a live recording I'd go for 1), stacked can be a pain in the ass to work with.

Here are things I'd consider:

- If you work through the song by sections, be sure that the drummer either has got a click track on or that he at least punches in after 4 bars of having heard a click track. Even if the drummer is really good and manages to maintain the same tempo throughout, the tempo changes that might occur without a click track WILL be distracting.

- If you work in sections, have them play the last 4 or 8 bars (and LISTEN CLOSELY TO THE DECAY OF THE CYMBALS) of the previous section as well, so there's something to crossfade to there, and tell them to continue playing into the next section as well for the exact same reason. It probably would be best to have them do multiple passes of the entire song, but that can become very exhausting for the musicians.

- Be sure to tweak the crossfades. If you crossfade the drums first be sure to move the xfade on the guitars slightly to the left and have a good look on the bass as well - a well-grooving guitar player is always very slightly early as opposed to a well-grooving bass player who is slightly "late".

- If there's a lot of spill between the instruments, never punch-in for instance a single guitar afterwards, just repeat the entire section with the entire band.

[Doublehelix]

I replied that I preferred method #1, but I want to clarify my position! Someone else mentioned that stacked lanes are a pain to work with. I have to agree. This is why I chose method #1. If it were easier to work with stacked lanes, then certainly, click-tracked sessions would be a better method.

When I do guitar solos, for example, with stacked lanes, and maybe 3-4 tracks for different microphones, it is a real pain in the ass to comp the tracks. Now with vocals where I only use one mic at a time, it is not too bad, but once you start adding multiple tracks... OUCH!

At a minimum I use 12 mics on drums, add in a couple of bass tracks (direct and miked), a couple of guitar tracks, vocals (scratch or otherwise), and then anything else (keys, etc.), it just becomes difficult to manage with stacked lanes... dare I say "unmanageable"?

I am not sure that method #1 is much better of course, but anything beats 16+ tracks, all with multiple lanes!!! :eusa_wall:

[Sam]

ah yes.....we need playlists...I have been bitching on about this over at N.com for years now....I cannot even properly and quickly edit together a drumkit or any mulitrack group without good grouping and playlists (take management) a la Protools!

[Animus]

I agree. Lanes and stuff are cool but the methodology is incomplete without playlists.

[Devil_07]

...... the methodology is incomplete without playlists.

That's what assistants are for. lol.

[Sam]

Yep, PT8 saw that lanes were a cool idea. So they took it, married lanes with playlists, and developed the most comprehensive comping system I have used. I dig it. A LOT!

If only steini would get over their big german ox hearted pride and raid others good and proven ideas for Cubendo once in a while....I hope PT8 puts the wind up them with regards to how much of the Cubendo featureset PT has accumulated!!!

[shanabit]

ah yes.....we need playlists...I have been bitching on about this over at N.com for years now....I cannot even properly and quickly edit together a drumkit or any mulitrack group without good grouping and playlists (take management) a la Protools!


How are the Playlists in Protools diff from say the TAKES in Cubendo in CYCLE mode? Use your split tool to make your regions and just right clik on the event and select which take you want

[Sam]

Well I would say that playlists are a whole lot more intuitive, and I can assemble whole edits and alternates on tracks and always instanly flick a 15 track drumkit back to where I started...I can duplicate whole edits so I can fuck with them and if it all gets me into a corner i can just flick back to where i was. Playlists work on a whole track basis, where the steinberg way is per event - whole tracks are far more useful to me anyways....

I dont need duplicated trax and plugin settings as per using a few sets in folder tracks methods....

Moreso for me is the way PT grouping works in with its Playlists....I simply cannot edit drums in Nuendo with anywhere near the speed and ease that I can in PT - especially with PT8's new 'lanes/playlists' and their audition buttons and 'punch selection to comp' function. I cannot use free warp on grouped events in the project window a la PT elastic audio - I have to open an editor and warp track by track which is impossible for multitrax as it screws the phase relationship and is plain clunky. It stops me from free warping a drumkit to a grooving bassline with fist needing to go and warp the whole grid which I may not want to do.

....and then there is the 'on top' bug in Cubendo where somehow it forgets which event should play and what you see aint what you hear :D

For me Cubendo's big weak spots in a fast moving music studio is are: GROUPING, TAKE MANAGEMENT, and SESSION DATA MANAGEMENT.

I always keep an Mbox near for chopping my multitrack stuff up - to this day! I simply cannot do it in Nuendo. Its a PITA, but thats just the way it is for me now.

I have tried and tried to get a workflow going for this stuff in Nu, but it is just too simple and easy in PT IMO....

Whew! I havent had a rant about those things for a while...it felt goooood ;) lol

[Ade]

This is all about preparation.
I do a fair amount of live recording with Nuendo and using a combination of the tools available, I have been able to handle multiple takes with ease... courtesy of Macros and the PLE - so I'm talking Cubendo 4.
Although this scheme is about stacked takes, it is as simple as recording further on down the timeline to record takes in a linear fashion.

It was a choice between thumbnails or the big guys but hopping to other pages was a PITA... so full images it is. :icon_eek3:
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/07/88/69/drumki11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=12&u=13078869) Kit 1, has been readied. In this example, it's one of four kits and to identify the components they are all suffixed with *1*. This will help the PLE identify target its actions. (The PLE can also be used to create the suffix names in the first place, for C4 owners who do not have Nuendo's rename functions.)
Note that each drum component is bussed to a group. This will allow all the takes to share DSP. Once the first groups are created and the first folder is setup, named and routed, just duplicate the folder. All folders duplicated from the original will assign to the groups correctly. Just use the PLE to change the components from a *1* to a *2* etc.
Here's kit 2:
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/07/88/69/drumki12.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=13&u=13078869).... you get the idea. The components, as stated earlier, are all routed to the same groups to share DSP.
The macro, with a further nested macro inside, will select the required kit, open its folder while closing the other kit's folders and disabling them from record. You don't have to have it work that way, but it's pretty cool to watch.

Here's how the macros should look:
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/07/88/69/kitaud11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=15&u=13078869)
Note that the line Select All in Folder is another macro.
Just increment the names for the number of takes you're prepared to put up with. :smash:

And here's how the PLEs are setup for my particular situation.
PART A. Place each PLE in order in the Macro.
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/07/88/69/select10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=16&u=13078869)this selects kit 1. Increment the name accordingly for the other kits.

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/07/88/69/auditi10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=17&u=13078869) Mutes all Kits except Kit 1.

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/07/88/69/auditi12.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=19&u=13078869)Unmutes Folder Kit 1.

Having now exhausted the 10 image per post limit - I am on to post 2 of this submission. Read on....

[Ade]

And here we are again.

PART B. Insert this Macro into PART A at the correct position shown earlier:
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/07/88/69/selcta10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=22&u=13078869)

Here is the PLE for line 3 of PART B of the Macro which I've completely forgotten the relevance of. Suffice it to say, this seemed to be vital. :sulkoff::
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/07/88/69/slctvi10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=23&u=13078869)

Finally, Part C of the Macro:
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/07/88/69/unmute10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=20&u=13078869) which will unmute all selected tracks, leaving them armed and ready to record.

You need to have the pref Enable Record on Selected Track enabled. If you don't do that then you have to introduce more PLE steps into the macro to enable and disable recording.

I understand that we are also talking about other players apart from drummers - but these macros can be customised without too much effort to include other players. It just takes some naming conventions to make the whole thing hang together.
Added bonus, now that each take is in a folder, it is pretty easy to try cuts between takes - and similar macros can take care of selection, splits, glues etc. Consider this a springboard for those uninitiated into the charms of the PLE and Macros.

Ade

Footnote:
What you should expect to see, having set the key commands for each kit correctly, is the folders for the other kits shut and the required kit open and enable.
Depending on your monitoring pref, you can also use the same commands to switch between takes using the key commands.
However... there are more efficient macros for doing that. Later
Disclaimer: I'm not for one minute suggesting that this is optimal. I'm just telling you what I do with what Nuendo does now.

[psvennevig]

PLE sure is strong. I wish Steinberg shipped it with a lot of cool stuff.
Say like "PT Playlist Feature" based on PLE and say saved track groups.

Pål

[shanabit]

thanks for the replys

[HowlingUlf]

[never mind]