UAD overloads

[Animus]

Something I have noticed that might help others is if you are getting glitches and cpu overloads when using high plugin count on the UAD1 or UAD2 there could be solution for you. I have had this type behavior even back on the UAD1. When the UAD usage got high, in the 50 to 60 percent area on the UAD meter, I would start to get overloads and pegged cpu meters in Nuendo.

What I figured out, in my case at least, is that it only happens when I have several plugins gui's open, either native or UAD. When I close these windows, the spiking goes away. Was a real pain in the ass dealing with that before figuring it out as I would have to stop playback, toggle the UAD global on/off, sometimes even toggle the Constrain Delay Comp button.

Hope that helps

[TerryG]

I'm not sure if I'm explaining this right, but IMO this overloading is because the video engine is fighting to keep up with showing the real time activity of the UAD plugs because there are additional processing pathways neccessary in order to monitor the UAD hardware for graphics representation that aren't neccessary with strictly native software plugs. In any case, it has always seemed Cubendo's video engine can only handle delivering so much action on the screen at once.

[Animus]

Yup, exactly.

[TerryG]

Fed Ex just delivered my Quad...
I'll be offline for a bit.
:D

[TAFKAT]

Fed Ex just delivered my Quad...
I'll be offline for a bit.
:D

.. Have a towel or tissue handy... LOL

[TerryG]

The UAD2 install was a bit tedious... install 5.0; turn off, install card, reboot; maunally authorize; wouldn't see all my plugs; reboot, wouldn't see any hardware; reboot; install 5.2, reboot; wouldn't see any hardware; reboot; finally went to new online authorization; wouldn't see any hardware; reboot; up and running!

Opened C4 and N3 and tested duplicates of the same project... all working.

But now, every minute or two, there's a lightning fast wipe of the graphics, like a periodic screen refresh in both apps.
I don't hear any audio glitches, but this definitely is some new quirk to chase down.

UA was awesome in granting my $250 promo voucher within minutes of submitting my 12/31/08 purchase order via email.

[Animus]

The Quad is a monster! You will be happy. I kept one of my UAD1's alive. I haven't seen the screen redraw you speak of. THough, the install thing is a pain. You basically have to restart twice, so that doesn't seem to be unusual.

[Ade]

Funny this came up, because I responded to a Q at the UAD forum about FXT and UAD. And now I see the screen issues are being reported here. :(
I thought this was going to be a real non-starter. Clicking and spiking all over the place - but I knew I had to get one of my 3 UAD-1s out of the main DAW. It was just not happy running the 3 UADs, a PCIe-424 and 2 dual header nVidia cards. There is no doubt that the graphics were suffering big time... screens would lock with ghost images and other BS.
So - out with a UAD into one of my P4 slave machines. Maybe nothing that you guys already know - but anyway... copying my post from other forum:

Bit late in the day - but I have been running 1 x UAD-1 card via FXT for some time and I think I have the kinks worked out.
It is crucial to have a UAD in the master machine because local use of the Track Advance plug-in is the key to fairly painless use.
The other crucial component is to turn up the latency for the Teleported UAD plugins a long way. Mine are set to 4096 which I think is the highest that FXT's slider goes.
At that setting, the demand on the network is tiny. I'm mixing at 512 to keep my control surface reasonably responsive and at that setting FXT is reporting only 12% of bandwidth is used.
That means that should the system spike, the chances of getting any clicks are small to none. I have never seen a dropout reported by FXT since I started to use this super high latency setting.
Even though the latency for the Teleported UAD plugs is very high, the DAW latency itself can be fairly low - I cannot go lower than 256, at which point the delay compensation (on the UAD) falls to pieces. Nonetheless, 256 is low enough to play VSTi reasonably well - as long as there is no Teleported UAD on that channel.

As far as setting up UAD plugs via FXT, the UAD TrackAdv plugin needs to be inserted from a local UAD and the correct number of Teleported UAD plugs currently inserted entered. Add more Teleported plugins to a channel and you have to nudge up the TrackAdv accordingly. When using Nuendo or Cubase, when first opening a project, the control panel of the audio card should be opened via the Device Setup panel and the OK button hit to re-establish the current latency. The Teleported plugins seem to require this reminder from the audio card as to what the system latency is and from that point, the playback is in time.
One obvious caveat is that should you need to localise the UAD plugin, the TrackAdv needs to be disabled, and the audio card control panel opened and closed again. In practice, this has not been a major PITA.

Regardless of whether the FXT app has received an update or not, this setup is working and has solved the issues I was experiencing when trying to run 3 UADs, a PCI-424e and 4 monitors from one computer. It did not like it!
Oh, one other thing. The UAD preset system is acknowledged by the FXT UADs. If you are running a local UAD in a normal non-LAN'd mode, you can save the settings from the plug in using UA's file dialog, swap out the instantiation for a Teleported UAD and load the preset straight back in from the master computer. This was extremely useful when first swapping the card out to a slave computer. Projects were loading and, of course, complaining that the 2 UADs could not load all the plugins which the local 3 UAD setup had previously used. By opening UAD plugins one by one, saving the preset, substituting the FXT version and loading the preset, it did not take long to split the load with the identical settings.

[Animus]

Ade,

Life is too short fuck around with manually delay compensating for fxteleported UADs. No thanks. ;-)

Interesting you are running 4096 on FXT. I can run below 1024 with no problem. Do you have gigabit network cards and switch? FXT never worked that great with regular 100baset.

[Ade]

Yeah - you're probably right... but as I am not particularly interested in putting any more dosh into UAD at this time, this was an effective way to get a little more mileage out of my 3 cards. In reality, putting two plugins in and then setting the Track Adv to 2 is not such a killer. Hey, makes you feel like a PT user! :p
As for the latency, UAD have never been real time kinda plugins. They have never performed well at super low latencies. As I have no intention of tracking through UAD plugs and only use them for playback, it makes complete sense, in this UAD/FXT context to up the latency for LAN'd UAD plugs to the full monty and completely kill any chance of network clicks.
Playback doesn't give a hoot n' hell about latency.
What's the point in watching the FXT meters hover at 90% and then spike into an over?

And UAD is the only thing running at 4096 on the FXT network. As I said, the network shows only 12% use with this config. That is very safe. The FXT VSTi's are all at playable latencies.
And yes, I have a gigabit network. :)

[dubwise]

Big projects on my dual 1G G4, I used to have to close all the UAD plug-in windows.
You could watch the Activity Monitor memory load window climb as I opened them.
Doesn't seem to be an issue on this dual 2G G5, but it's a lot more machine.

[TerryG]

I loaded 28 UAD plugs last night (at least a dozen 33609's) and opened as many of their windows as I could fit on my screen... no issues.
Admittedly, I wasn't loading the Quad up on purpose beyond what the song called for, but I'm encouraged that it did everything I asked of it.

I'm going to go back in now and load it purposely to try making some bad things happen... report to follow.

Cheers

[Animus]

Take it up to at least 60 percent in the UAD meter and load some of the 96khz double sampling plugins like the 33609.

[TerryG]

UAD-2 Quad (Win XP SP3)(computer specs in sig)

67% Load Test

N3 - 27 plugs (9 Neve 33609's) 67% DSP / 33% PGM / 2% MEM

DSP1: 54.3% / PGM: 14.6% / plugs: 9
DSP2: 36% / PGM: 40.2% / plugs: 4
DSP3: 83.8% / PGM: 26.1% / plugs: 6
DSP4: 92.8% / PGM: 51.3% / plugs: 8
================================================== =

C4 - 27 plugs (9 Neve 33609's) 67% DSP / 32% PGM / 2% MEM

DSP1: 83.8% / PGM: 26.1% / plugs: 6
DSP2: 81% / PGM: 18.7% / plugs: 8
DSP3: 60.7% / PGM: 38.8% / plugs: 8
DSP4: 41.3% / PGM: 45.2% / plugs: 5
================================================== =
================================================== =

92% Load Test

Windows XP SP3 CPU @ 12%; Nuendo 3 CPU @ 33%
N3 - 34 plugs (12 Neve 33609's) 92% DSP / 43% PGM / 2% MEM

DSP1: 94.5% / PGM: 55.9% / plugs: 7
DSP2: 92.2% / PGM: 20.2% / plugs: 5
DSP3: 93.8% / PGM: 35.6% / plugs: 10
DSP4: 85.9% / PGM: 58.9% / plugs: 12
================================================== =
Windows XP SP3 CPU @ 12%; Cubase 4 CPU @ 33%
C4 - 34 plugs (12 Neve 33609's) 92% DSP / 41% PGM / 2% MEM

DSP1: 90.6% / PGM: 26.1% / plugs: 6
DSP2: 92.8% / PGM: 29.7% / plugs: 11
DSP3: 89.6% / PGM: 45.8% / plugs: 9
DSP4: 93.4% / PGM: 61.9% / plugs: 8

320 samples / 7.26mS reported by the Quad.
256 buffer in my RME HDSP (6mS)
44.1K project


ALL CLEAN!

I locked out Internet activity within my ZoneAlarm firewall today.
Yesterday's screen refresh artifacts are gone... turns out I was downloading something in the background.
:rotfl:
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones... unless disabling my Magma and the 4 UAD-1's had something to do with it.

[TAFKAT]

I locked out Internet activity within my ZoneAlarm firewall today.
Yesterday's screen referesh artifacts are gone... turns out I was downloading something in the background. .

Zone Alarm on your DAW... ??

Eeek, get rid of the thing and get behind a router if you really need a Firewall, those software firewalls are crap, IMHO, of course.. :-)

BTW: What latency where the above tests run at.. ?

[TerryG]

320 samples / 7.26mS reported by the Quad.

256 buffer in my RME (6mS)
44.1K project

Only small difference between N3 & C4 was that C4 used 11MEG more memory running this project (869 versus 858 total system useage)

[Animus]

Cool. Did you running in a real world project. The screen stuff happens when theres lots of native plugs, vst and vsti, along with a load UAD1 and UAD2.

[TerryG]

Real project, but not huge (8 tracks or 40 shouldn't matter in this type of a % load test); tracked guitars and drums, Hypersonic 2 real time midi triggered keys. Nothing frozen. 3 or 4 inserts used on each channel and subgroups.

I need to reboot to turn on the Magma in order to add the UAD-1's to this, but you can see in an above post I loaded a bunch of windows last night with everything active and didn't have graphics issues aside from the periodic refresh that might have been an artifact of background crap...

I couldn't get the UAD-1's to do anything last night when it was all active... seemed like I needed to have totally maxxed out the Quad before it would turn over the reigns...

Back in awhile to know for sure...

[Animus]

well, this is what I think of your pitiful perfect system. :piss2::eusa_angel: Your kungfu doesn't match mine


:icon30:

[TerryG]

On the Internet, running 92% UAD2 load, 45 plugins (added 11 native) on the screen simultaneously.... sounds nice, looks cluttered :icon_razz:

50% C4 CPU
22% Windows CPU

Multiprocessing ON (obviously)
eating 1.18GB system memory

Only wierdness:
Only 1 of my UAD-1's is showing up in the UAD monitor (????); Rebooted from full off, still the same.
(I have never had any issues with my Magma or UAD-1's, EVER - this is a new issue)
Meanwhile, all 4 UAD-1's are showing up in System Devices...(as they should when the Magma is on...) (????)
:eusa_doh:

VIN!!!! HELP!

[TerryG]

Just installed C4.5.2 onto my dual boot of Vista Ultimate 32-bit.
Loaded same 92% UAD2 Test...

"Multi Processing" checked at VST Audio System device setup: CPU METER and AUDIBLE SPIKING CONFIRMED.

Uncheck box: CLEAN

In all cases Windows Task Manager CPU meters show all 4 procs working.
Multi checked = 18% load in Windows CPU meters with audible spikes.
Multi unchecked = 12% load in Windows CPU meters, clean audio...

:smash: weird.

Only difference from test above = Vista

Only good news: My 4 UAD-1's show up like they're supposed to, but only in Vista.
Still only 1 in XP Pro SP3 after a driver reinstall... @#$%^&

[TAFKAT]

Hey Terry,

Did you install the UAD2 on XP without the Magma attached ?

Sounds like a low level enumeration issue with the UAD1's / Magma, sometimes caused my some resource allocation/ lack of resources between the hardware.

Couple more questions,

Do you have all unused peripherals on the motherboard disabled, i.e, COM/Parallel Ports/Unused RAID controllers/unused NIC ?

If not, do that first, it may release some resources to assign back to the Magma.

One thing to try is to remove the UAD2, and return the system back to a working state with the UAD1's/Magma, then install the UAD2 with the Magma attached and resources already assigned, and see what happens.

We had a similar issue with Sams system here in Oz after he shuffled some resources around installing and removing another expansion card of some sort , I think it was a secondary Firewire from memory. It was further complicated by him also changing the vid driver from the version I had configured the system with, which was a specific driver for media based workstations, but it was related to the low level resources being reallocated.

We stepped back to a working config , reinstalled , and it settled it.

BTW: I'm not not across the Magmas that much to be honest, there may be some oddities there , but Stacy used one for a while, so he may have some ideas if the above doesn't settle it. There was also a member at DAWbench called Animix who was a gun on the things, haven't seen him navigate across here yet, he might be worth a shout as well.

Let us know how you go..

Re Vista, hmmm, sounds like a resource issue again.. :-(

Peace

[Captain Caveman]

I had clicking with MP enabled on my humble E6600 setup. Dunno whether it was down to UAD-1, but what cured it for me was going into Devices/Device Setup and changed the Audio Priority to Boost.

Any joy?

[TerryG]

I had clicking with MP enabled on my humble E6600 setup. Dunno whether it was down to UAD-1, but what cured it for me was going into Devices/Device Setup and changed the Audio Priority to Boost.

Any joy?

Tried the BOOST last night, no difference for me as far as allowing MultiProc without the clipping meter in VISTA...
==============

VIN, I'm uninstalling all traces of anything UAD related in Windows and the registry. Will activate the Magma and then install 5.2 as if it's all brand new... I'll report back. I'll avoid disassembling everything unless I have to, being as everything works in Vista (aside from MultiProc in C4).

Back in awhile...

[TerryG]

... verbatim from my post in the UAD2 Temp Forum after 12 hours of hell:

The UAD2 Quad installed on my motherboard with my existing 4xUAD-1's in a 7-slot Magma without issue in Vista 32 (aside from the documented ASIO meter/audio clipping in Cubase 4 when Multi Processing is activated).
But, I can only get one of my UAD-1's to show up in the UAD Meter since installing the UAD-2 Quad in Windows XP Pro.
This system was rock solid in WinXP with 4x UAD-1's in the Magma before the Quad install.

I've uninstalled all the hardware/software, searched the drive for every file referenced in the setuplog, and deleted every registry reference to anything related to UAD... multiple times between new reinstall attempts using different procedures. I've even tried going back to v4.1 to get the WinXP to where it was 4 days ago before the Quad arrived... no luck. Every time the UAD Meter will now only show one of my four UAD-1's even though all four always show up in Windows Device Manager, no matter if trying 4.1, 5.0, or 5.2 driver versions.

This problem seems to be irreverseable using logical methods. It indicates that this new install process has permanently changed something behind the scenes in Windows XP SP3. Cross referencing the registry and components in WinXP versus the working Vista Ultimate 32 boot show nothing obvious.

The Quad is great guys, but I want my WinXP boot working the way Vista does with my 4x UAD1 Magma (just without Vista's Multi Processing bug in Cubase 4)...

[Doublehelix]

Well, I know I am not offering much in the way of help here, but thought I would let you know that I have my Magma running fine (3 X UAD-1) with my Quad UAD-2 on the mobo running XP and C4.

Asus P5B Deluxe, E6600 2.4 GHz, 2 GB CORSAIR DDR2 800, Matrox Parhelia APVe Video Card, Lynx AES-16, 3 X UAD-1 Cards (v. 5.2) in a 7-space Magma Chassis (PCI), UAD-2 Quad, Powercore Element, Win XP SP3, Cubase 4.52.

[Animus]

Hey Terry,

IMO, you really don't need all those UAD1's with a QUAD. I had 4 myself and only have 1 now. You should put them on a secondary machine or something.

[TerryG]

Hey Terry,

IMO, you really don't need all those UAD1's with a QUAD. I had 4 myself and only have 1 now. You should put them on a secondary machine or something.

Yes, the Quad is definitely capable of handling what I do all by itself.

I'd been planning to sell the Magma w/4x UAD-1's as soon as the Quad arrived anyway...
I'm just puzzled why it's acting differently in XP than Vista.

The new 5.x UAD meter software says nothing about why.
At least the 4.10 software says they're unable to get memory allocated...

OK, off to our Buy & Sell Forum... :icon_cool:

[Animus]

hmmm My UAD1's all showed up fine when I installed the QUAD (the 3 I had in there). Not sure what the issue is with yours not showing up.

Sadly, the market for UAD1's have seriously bottomed out since UA slashed prices. I was lucky to sell 3 of mine right before that. I think you can get em used now for 100. THough if you package it with a magma it might be enticing.

[TerryG]

hmmm My UAD1's all showed up fine when I installed the QUAD (the 3 I had in there). Not sure what the issue is with yours not showing up.

Sadly, the market for UAD1's have seriously bottomed out since UA slashed prices. I was lucky to sell 3 of mine right before that. I think you can get em used now for 100. THough if you package it with a magma it might be enticing.

That's the rub... when I first installed the Quad, it was in the XP boot, and it DID show all 4 UAD-1's. We had a wind storm knock out power late Thursday night while I was in XP. Unless that had something to do with frazzling the memory allocation to the Magma, I have no idea why it's different now.

I think I'll start the bidding at $500...

[Animus]

You don't have any UPS's in line? :icon_eek3:

[TerryG]

You don't have any UPS's in line? :icon_eek3:

I did... until last week.
The internal battery died, and it would only keep beeping and resetting itself...

Ya, I know... perfect timing.:icon_rolleyes:

I can buy a better UPS with the magma coin...

[TAFKAT]

The new 5.x UAD meter software says nothing about why.
At least the 4.10 software says they're unable to get memory allocated...


Hey Terry,

That is what I was trying to explain to you in my original post, there is a resource allocation issue.

Vista may just have a different way of allocating the resources, but its obviously not working correctly even tho the 4 cards are appearing.

Did you manage to get the 4 x UAD1/Magma happening again in Windows XP, without the UAD2 ?

You need to get back to that point first.

Have you disabled all unnecessary peripherals.., etc..

Sorry if I have missed that in the mix, but you didn't directly answer those questions I posed earlier..

Something else is reserving the required resources , its exactly what happened to Sam here in Oz.

[TerryG]

Hey Terry,

That is what I was trying to explain to you in my original post, there is a resource allocation issue.

Vista may just have a different way of allocating the resources, but its obviously not working correctly even tho the 4 cards are appearing.

Did you manage to get the 4 x UAD1/Magma happening again in Windows XP, without the UAD2 ?

You need to get back to that point first.

Have you disabled all unnecessary peripherals.., etc..

Sorry if I have missed that in the mix, but you didn't directly answer those questions I posed earlier..

I've tried everything, including your suggestions. I've got a list of keywords based on all the parts I've identified that I search for and delete with every new reinstall attempt. I've disabled everything possible to free up resources... nothing is working. I can't get the Magma online with all 4 UAD's even after removing the UAD2 completely and doing a total cleanout.
I've tried every reinstall combination and sequence, even doing separate UAD-1 and then UAD-2 plug installs... Meanwhile, its all good on Vista.

Whether my current XP issue is the result of a power outage that somehow eliminated memory resources previously used by the Magma or not... It won't return to the working status of 4 days ago, prior to the first Quad install.

This new authorization process is marketed as "streamlined", but make no mistake, it was designed to eliminate people upgrading their software while continuing to use old plugin reg keys in secondary machines, saving them from buying new authorizations for the same plugs when card groups are separated, as well as the ability to cut and paste the code that resets demo periods... It's got more big brother built in all the way around, and it's holding hands with some deep internal parts of Windows that aren't readily apparent.
All that being said, I've got no problem with UA guarding their revenue stream, as long as things that used to work don't get messed up in the process without an apparent solution.

So, any new suggestions on how I can assign memory allocations, short of a complete WinXP reinstall?

My next step is to remove the Quad and try a system restore to last week...

[TAFKAT]

Hey Terry,

What I would suggest is if you have an image of a previous state that would be a go, I don't know about System Restore, as its the first thing I switch off , but if that is all you have then its better than nothing.., but before you do...

Your memory allocation issue may well be at the hardware level on the motherboard, so one thing you can try is to first clear the CMOS on the board, doing a hard reset, not just resetting the BIOS. That is usually a jumper. Check the manual for the correct procedure for your board.

Then remove all except the vid card , and then install each piece of hardware one at a time to allow it to reallocate the resources again sequentially, just as you did on the first build.

That should get you back to the working state with the Magma/4 Cards..

Then you can tackle the UAD2 from there..

And some people wonder why I consider UAD's the Achilles heal to native DAW's.., :eusa_doh:, did I just say that out loud... ?? :icon_eek3:

[TerryG]

Well, the saga continues... My system restore had saved at least 15 points from today back to January 2. My goal was to get back to the 8th. Windows would go through the entire system restore process, loading files and then rebooting... But, at the end of every session, it would report a failure to complete the process.
Basically, Windows refused a dozen attempts to complete a restore process earlier than the install point of the "Wdfcoinstaller01007" used in the new v5.2 drivers. These drivers actually show up along with Windows' Update files (blue lettering) "$NTUninstallWdf01007$".

I'm sitting here now with the Magma card and the UAD2 card uninstalled.
I've completed another extensive search and destroy mission, and the only thing left is the hard reset... The only question I have about going through that is the fact that Vista works fine...
Will this process possibly F it up, or will Vista never know as long as I always boot into XP until everything is back in place?

Thanks Vin.

[TerryG]

BTW, here's the data from the last attempt to take everything back to v4.10 before the Quad:

Windows Device Manager says this:

Card 1: bus 6 device 4 - IRQ 17 memory range D8000000-DFFFFFFF
Card 2: bus 6 device 5 - IRQ 18 memory range C8000000-CFFFFFFF
Card 3: bus 6 device 6 - IRQ 19 memory range C0000000-C7FFFFFF
Card 4: bus 6 device 7 - IRQ 16 memory range B8000000-BFFFFFFF

Devices working properly
No Conflicts

4.10 UAD Performance Meter/Config shows this:

CARD 1: OK
CARD 2:
Not available. No system memory resources. MapRDRAM failed
CARD 3:
Not available. No system memory resources. MapRDRAM failed
CARD 4:
Not available. No system memory resources. MapRDRAM failed

[Animus]

Terry, you should really use something like Norton's Ghost. I do and it has saved my ass more time than I can remember.

Another thing you might want to try is put some of the UAD1 directly inside the computer. When I was running a Magma it worked fine for a long awhile then something "broke" on the Magma which caused me a whole lot of grief.

[m127]

Yes, the Quad is definitely capable of handling what I do all by itself.

I'd been planning to sell the Magma w/4x UAD-1's as soon as the Quad arrived anyway...
I'm just puzzled why it's acting differently in XP than Vista.

The new 5.x UAD meter software says nothing about why.
At least the 4.10 software says they're unable to get memory allocated...

OK, off to our Buy & Sell Forum... :icon_cool:

Terry, and all, you guys might be interested in the developments of a discussion relating to this one here http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=813752#813752


It seems we actually have a "situation", and the Steinberg "messenger" is skipping on straightforwardness...

Would be great if you could report your findings over there as well.

The UA people, and tons of users are following it up, with the sole interest of obtaining info in terms of what is going on inside Cubase that is preventing stability and optimum multi-core utilization... not only for UAD plugs btw...

[Animus]

BTW, here's the data from the last atytempt to take everything back to v4.10 before the Quad:

Windows Device Manager says this:

Card 1 bus 6 device 4 IRQ 17 memory range D8000000-DFFFFFFF
Card 2 bus 6 device 5 IRQ 18 memory range C8000000-CFFFFFFF
Card 3 bus 6 device 6 IRQ 19 memory range C0000000-C7FFFFFF
Card 4 bus 6 device 7 IRQ 16, memory range B8000000-BFFFFFFF

Devices working properly
No Conflicts

4.10 UAD Performance Meter/Config shows this:

CARD 1: OK
CARD 2:
Not available. No system memory resources. MapRDRAM failed
CARD 3:
Not available. No system memory resources. MapRDRAM failed
CARD 4:
Not available. No system memory resources. MapRDRAM failed


Are you running the 3gb switch or USERVA?

[TerryG]

That's another strange thing Stacy...

WinXP used to consistently report 3.25GB Ram w/PAE
For the past couple of days it's been changing between that and 2.5GB w/PAE on random boots. Right now it's reading 3.25 with PAE again.

I inserted the /3GB switch for the hell of it in the boot.ini file, but Vista is controlling this dual boot with it's own bootmanager, VistaBoot Pro v3.3.
It doesn't allow editing the WinXP side of things.

And, I've got Norton Ghost, but I typically only save a drive after a fresh install... like the one coming up. ;)

[TAFKAT]

Terry,

IMO, the available ram moving is hinting that you are having some memory allocation and reservation issues at the board level.

Did you try clearing CMOS ?

With Windows reporting that all is fine, but the UAD applet not being able to access the cards, its meaning that although the Windows resource steering is showing all is in the clear, you still have an issue at ring 0 , or below the HAL.

Re System restore, not surprised, its as useless as tits on a bull if you ask me.. :-(

A quick ghost prior to installing the UAD2 could have saved your arse , but I think the Windows install is too far gone now..

UAD have some t's to cross by the sound of it.. :-(

Instead of wasting any more time, maybe start fresh , ghost when finished and put it in a safe place.. :-)

Hop onto IM if you need to talk to me in real time..

[TerryG]

I cleared CMOS just to say I did.
The Vista boot runs all the UAD's fine, so the motherboard wasn't the problem.

I'm going to install the cards one by one in XP...

TTYL

[TAFKAT]

I cleared CMOS just to say I did.
The Vista boot runs all the UAD's fine, so the motherboard wasn't the problem.

I'm going to install the cards one by one in XP...

TTYL

Cool,

BTW, I wouldn't call needing to turn off multiprocessing in Cubase when running in Vista, fine , the UAD's may be all available in the UAD control applet, but you still have something not settled there.

As much as I think Vista is lipstick on a pig, the performance variable between it and XP , although measurable at lower latencies, is not what you have described. If you were able to run in XP without needing to disable multiprocessing, then there shouldn't be an issue under Vista.

Anyhow,

Let us know how you go with the XP reinstall, and I would wipe Vista off the map unless there is a specific reason for you to have it on the rig..

[TerryG]

LOL! No, Vista is only there for the pretty colors... and comparison testing.

The issue with the ASIO meter clipping with Multi Processing in C4 in Vista aside, at least Vista sees all the UAD's, which is my main concern with XP at this point.

Oh well, took photos of the Magma loaded with the 4 cards... I guess the next stop is eBay.

[The Guru]

The PAE switch requires full, un-interrupted blocks of RAM to work properly. This is why the /3GB switch in conjunction with the /Userva= switch is recommended instead.

UAD cards require the /userva switch, also.

[psvennevig]

And on all CPUs with hardware support for DEP, PAE is enabled by default from the WinXP kernel. So turning it off/on will not change.

One of the large changes from SP1 to SP2.

Pål

[TerryG]

And on all CPUs with hardware support for DEP, PAE is enabled by default from the WinXP kernel. So turning it off/on will not change.

One of the large changes from SP1 to SP2.

Pål

yep :icon_cool:

[TAFKAT]

Hey Terry,

Do we have a happy ending here as yet ?

:eusa_think:

[TerryG]

A chunk of this is pasted from your question about driver conflicts in my FOR SALE post:
=====================
<WDK release Notes>

WDF
The version number of Windows Driver Foundation (user-mode and kernel-mode)
for Windows Server "Longhorn" or Windows Vista SP1 has been changed to 1.7
to account for various bug fixes and minor backwards compatible changes. The
WDK samples for UMDF and KMDF now require the use of the 1.7 coinstallers
(WudfUpdate_01007.dll and WdfCoinstaller01007.dll respectively).

Since the WDK does not currently contain framework redistributable for
previous operating systems (Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003 or
Windows Vista), sample drivers built with this kit will only be able to run
on the prerelease versions of Windows Server "Longhorn" or Windows Vista
SP1.

</WDK Release Notes>

Sure enough, my Vista install that sees all the UAD's is Vista SP1.

Back in the "old days", the 4.10 drivers would see each UAD-1 and require prompts to install the drivers in two 4-part sequences ("hypkern" and "hypaudio"), one sequence for each card and each driver.
Now, the new driver installation is "easier", it shows the file swapping icon for several seconds. Then, a window opens announcing the drivers that have been installed. Scroll down the window and they show two pairs of references to the UAD-2 (UAD2System & UAD2Pcie/wdfcoinstaller01007), and only one set (hypkern and hypaudio) for the UAD-1 (even with four cards). Every time this happened on my XP install, only one UAD-1 would show up in the UAD Performance Meter.
Oddly enough, when googling wdfcoinstaller01077, I hit on numerous forum threads from Microsoft and other techies talking about the installer (where I found the BOLD comments above) and its association to WinUSB... (USB???)
The Wdfcoinstaller01007 installs itself as a Windows System Driver Update... apparently this is why I can't seem to restore or change whatever needs to be removed from XP's subsystem to revert back to the way the system worked before installing it. After 3 days of trying various things, my head is scrambled.
====================

In the end, nothing I tried could get my XP SP3 boot to see more than one UAD-1... the icing on the cake was when I took cards out of the Magma and loaded two UAD-1's on the motherboard next to the UAD-2... reinstalled everything and still only one UAD-1 was seen. :smash:

I'm not declaring this as a known bug, I've just come to the conclusion based on everything I've experienced that something in the architecture of the new UAD drivers, and their relation to the Windows System Driver Update component (Wdfcoinstaller01007) have seriously screwed up my ability to go back one week in time (no working Restore function prior to the WDF install) and have a fully working system where the UAD-1 & UAD-2 work together in XP SP3 like they do in my Vista SP1 boot on the same machine.
I would bet a total reinstall of WinXP would solve the problem... but that's an 8 hour PITA reloading apps that I'd just as soon avoid since the UAD-2 is powerful enough to cover my needs anyway... and I'd already planned on selling the Magma/UAD-1's before it even arrived.

[TAFKAT]

Hey Terry,

Sorry Mate, I did see the last post , what I am loosing in the mix was whether you managed to resolve it in XP to see the 4 UAD1's or is it still hosed after the intellipoint /wdfcoinstaller01007 correlation.

If in fact the wdfcoinstaller01007 component that UAD has rolled into this new driver deployment has the possibility of causing this type of issue, then it seriously needs the noise level raised.

BTW: this is the identical behavior we experienced on Sam's system here in Oz, and we managed arm wrestle it back, but we did have a Ghost image of a previous state..

[Sam]

yep, wasn't it the memory footprint of the newer video driver I (stupidly) updated that pushed her over the waterfall?

[TerryG]

Still hosed.

Nothing I've tried has brought the system back to the state it was in before last Thursday when I first installed the v5.2 UAD drivers and the Intellipoint Optical USB mouse that both use Wdfcoinstaller01007 which installs and imbeds itself as a Windows Systems Driver Update.

The one thing I haven't tried is to uninstall the mouse drivers (seems stupid not to have now that I think about it... lack of sleep will do that sometimes :icon_redface:)

I guess I'll open the whole ball of wax all over again (had it all packaged for sale) just to see if there's a way out...

[TAFKAT]

The one thing I haven't tried is to uninstall the mouse drivers (seems stupid not to have now that I think about it... lack of sleep will do that sometimes :icon_redface:)

Worth a shot, as Sam noted, it was an updated Nvidia driver that was enough to reshuffle the resources enough to hose his system..

It should be noted , this only on systems that are packed to the gills in regards to expansions... , someone installing a UAD2 on its own should not run into this tapdance..

[The Guru]

If using the /3GB switch with UAD's, you have to use the /Userva= switch and start at 2900 and subtract incriments of 100 depending on the # of cards. Available virtual address space is the issue.

[TAFKAT]

If using the /3GB switch with UAD's, you have to use the /Userva= switch and start at 2900 and subtract incriments of 100 depending on the # of cards. Available virtual address space is the issue.

Hey Nate,

I think that Userva has already been covered, I may be wrong..

You are right tho, its is obviously about the available address space, but there is something flaky going on, even for those not using the 3GB switch..

[TerryG]

You're not gonna believe this...

OK, so I uninstalled the Microsoft Intellipoint Drivers, uninstalled the UAD-2 Drivers, turned off the computer, uninstalled the UAD-2 itself, plugged in my old wired mouse, and rebooted...

The wired mouse doesn't work.. so, I plug the Intellipoint USB back in, viola, it still works... obviously, something that said it had uninstalled actually wasn't. So, I look into Control Panel/Add or Remove Programs, and I find two Windows Driver references to the UAD-2 right above the typical Windows Update listings... I uninstall them. It says they're gone.
Then, I open the Windows folder in Explorer and see the blue folders for the Wdf01005 and Wdf01007 coinstallers are still there... I open their subfolders and click the spunist.exe files to uninstall them... it says they're gone...

Now, I scroll into Windows/system32 folder to look for references to any leftover UAD-2 components I can manually delete... stay with me, just about there...
I scroll down to the W's and find no less than 118 wdfcoinstaller.dll's that have magically appeared!:
111 versions of the wdfcoinstaller01001
1 version of the wdfcoinstaller 01005
7 versions of the wdfcoinstaller01007

I feel like I need to keep one of each inside my system32 folder, so I've deleted the 115 repeats...

I've also been deleting registry files to get rid of the Intellipoint references, because it's still working even though Windows told me it was uninstalled...

I swear, big brother has intertwined some real shit into this baby...

I'll get to a point soon when I can reboot and check to see if the wired mouse is working again.

[The Guru]

Windows has drivers that will run the wireless mouse. Did you un-plug the USB dongle for the mouse?

[TAFKAT]

Terry,

Seriously Mate, blitze it and start fresh, that Windows install is hosed , and if possible use the intellimouse with the standard drivers only..

When it comes to input devices, the simpler the better IMO

[TerryG]

Also, there are some new hidden files in system32/drivers...

Msft_Kernel_hypaudio_01001.Wdf
Msft_Kernel_hypkern_01001.Wdf
Msft_Kernel_UAD2Pcie_01005.Wdf
Msft_Kernel_UAD2Pcie_01007.Wdf
MsftWdf_Kernel_01007_Coinstaller_Critical.Wdf

I tell ya, this is the nail in the coffin of my theory for what I've been going through for 5 days.

And Nate, you might have missed it somewhere, but I'm running a dual boot of Vista, and Vista takes control of the bootmanager.
The XP boot.ini file can be accessed for editing, but it doesn't control the boot process, so I don't think the boot manager reads it anymore.
I've added the userva=2800 anyway... XP is still reporting 3.25GB w/Physical Address Extension (as is typical).

[TerryG]

Terry,

Seriously Mate, blitze it and start fresh, that Windows install is hosed , and if possible use the intellimouse with the standard drivers only..

When it comes to input devices, the simpler the better IMO

Well, one last try... the XP boot is as clean as I can make it. I've uninstalled everything installed in the past week.
I've rebooted 3 times, erased the pagefile, old inf files, registry references, everything that's no longer "in" the machine.

Oh, and the sudden appearance of all the 118 wdf coinstaller files was spontaneous reaction to "uninstalling" them according to their respective blue folder spuninst.exe They weren't there before.

I don't know if the new USB mouse will function, it didn't before without it's own drivers... I'll stick with the wired mouse until I go through the next series of UAD installs.

OK, back to square one... installing UAD drivers 4.10, shutting down, installing the magma host card with only UAD-1's first, and seeing what happens...

to be continued.

[TerryG]

v4.10 installed and working with all 4 UAD-1's...:icon_cool:

Now, the install to v5.2 software, shutdown, and UAD2 Card install...

I'll either be back happy... or not.

[Animus]

Just get rid of the UAD1s. Problem solved. Like I said I would constantly max out my 4 UAD1s, especially with the load balancing issues, but with the Quad it can take all I can throw at it.

[TAFKAT]

Stacy,

Lets see where the dust settles here..

The solution for many will not be to simply dump their UAD1 cards, maybe Terry can dot a few i's here for everyone.. :D

[TerryG]

hmm... a Quad UAD-2 = 10 UAD-1's right?
So, you have the equivalent of 10.

Well, now I have the equivalent of 14.
:rotfl:

Success... (just so I know it all works... the magma x4 is still for sale)

Now, I can reboot and install the USB mouse and see if it all blows up! :icon_eek:

[TAFKAT]

:pop_corn:

[Animus]

hmm... a Quad UAD-2 = 10 UAD-1's right?
So, you have the equivalent of 10.

Well, now I have the equivalent of 14.
:rotfl:

Success... (just so I know it all works... the magma x4 is still for sale)

Now, I can reboot and install the USB mouse and see if it all blows up! :icon_eek:


Yeah but you will still run into load balancing on those UAD1's, plus all those cards will eat up system resources and not to mention potentially more system instability. :sulkoff:

[TerryG]

Well, I just loaded it up to 82% in both UAD1/UAD2 performance meters for laughs... kind of a pain not being able to shift loads in real time.
You need to pre-assign the load based on estimates, then start the app and load the project, hoping to get what you'd intended for resource sharing...

All done.

Now, what's it gonna take to fix that Multi Processing bug in C4/Vista?