View Full Version : How many are leaving Nuendo for Pro Tools 9?
Just curios how many are finally giving up on Nuendo?
LEX
zvenx
11-04-2010, 10:01 PM
This to me is the game changer...... I will wait awhile and watch what SB will come out with in terms of features and bug fixes to Nuendo... if I am not happy, I am buying this..... I have had it up to here with steinberg and sadly dont' even wish them well anymore.
rsp
This to me is the game changer...... I will wait awhile and watch what SB will come out with in terms of features and bug fixes to Nuendo... if I am not happy, I am buying this..... I have had it up to here with steinberg and sadly dont' even wish them well anymore.
rsp
I feel you, though I've gotten there earlier and kdm just got there recently.
Considering SB's history, lack of updates, Fredo and SB's attitude (untill recently) have left a bad taste in my mouth still.
I don't blame you.
LEX
zvenx
11-04-2010, 10:44 PM
really a pity. if they had put aside their arrogance two years ago, it could have been different.
rsp
really a pity. if they had put aside their arrogance two years ago, it could have been different.
rsp
We tried to tell them. They didn't listen. PT did. Thats why were are here now.
LEX
funkcity
11-05-2010, 03:09 AM
They will have an enormous buzz at AES SF this weekend.. however....
Stepping back a second here...Avid Marketing may have trumped innovation and substance.
Everyone is making such a fuss to have what has been available with Nuendo for some time.
But the new crew at Avid are working at changing their past way of doing things.
We asked Steiny for VCA Masters for 8 years now. PT9 has them. ..Like a real pro console.
The Hans Zimmer Video beams about ProTools. But on Avatar he used Cubase for midi!
I was there.
People still bitch about PT Midi.
But PT Ain't there yet...
Steiny has 64bit
Affordable Madi
Truly multiprocessor support
Clip based gain
Multiple open projects
Yukon...maybe one day Yamacon??
PT Score editor....hmmm sounds familiar
PT summing? fixed point.
faster than realtime render (PT still doesn't do it)
They are rehashing and in many ways perfecting Steinbergs original designs.
System Link to a newer more pro Satellite?
But Artist and System 5 are now for PT9. That is huge! No more HUI!!
Could this be a Nuendo killer? Not if Yamaha wants to compete. But there isn't much time!
Routing is STILL the best in Reaper.
Avid's version of "native" is quite inventive with all the possible combinations!:icon_rolleyes:
Nuendo is much more straight ahead.
But PT9 and all its permutations is/are available today.
Go ahead shoot me ! :icon_yes:
People still bitch about PT Midi.
Read my posts on the Nuendo vs. PT thread. No, midi doesn't have the extensive feature set of Cubendo, but for me at least, the work flow is, more often than not, faster in PT because of other basic differences, regardless of the logical editor, etc. Some areas of midi I'm still more used to Nuendo, but learning alternative approaches in PT.
I haven't seen any of the timing problems some Mac/PT users are reporting. Timing is as good as Nuendo here.
But PT Ain't there yet...
Steiny has 64bit
I was thinking PT9/native is 64 bit. yes/no?
PT Score editor....hmmm sounds familiar
Used both, integration with Sibelius is far more capable than Nuendo's, and even PT's internal Sibleius-lite editor looks a heck of a lot better - I went from sketch to a perfectly readable printed work copy for arranging/splitting out in 20 seconds. Couldn't come close to that with Nuendo - I tried many times.
PT summing? fixed point.
Not in native, unless you know something we don't.
faster than realtime render (PT still doesn't do it)
Had to stop using it in Nuendo - couldn't risk audio anomalies, but it is handy for rendering fx offline. Then again, Audiosuite does that inline without importing and dragging new tracks around. Realtime export in N5 doesn't work - cpu overloads at least half the time.
They will have an enormous buzz at AES SF this weekend.. however....
Stepping back a second here...Avid Marketing may have trumped innovation and substance.
Everyone is making such a fuss to have what has been available with Nuendo for some time.
But the new crew at Avid are working at changing their past way of doing things.
We asked Steiny for VCA Masters for 8 years now. PT9 has them. ..Like a real pro console.
The Hans Zimmer Video beams about ProTools. But on Avatar he used Cubase for midi!
I was there.
People still bitch about PT Midi.
But PT Ain't there yet...
Steiny has 64bit
Affordable Madi
Truly multiprocessor support
Clip based gain
Multiple open projects
Yukon...maybe one day Yamacon??
PT Score editor....hmmm sounds familiar
PT summing? fixed point.
faster than realtime render (PT still doesn't do it)
They are rehashing and in many ways perfecting Steinbergs original designs.
System Link to a newer more pro Satellite?
But Artist and System 5 are now for PT9. That is huge! No more HUI!!
Could this be a Nuendo killer? Not if Yamaha wants to compete. But there isn't much time!
Routing is STILL the best in Reaper.
Avid's version of "native" is quite inventive with all the possible combinations!:icon_rolleyes:
Nuendo is much more straight ahead.
But PT9 and all its permutations is/are available today.
Go ahead shoot me ! :icon_yes:
Well, you are right about alot, but Hans is one of few who uses Cubase to score that we know. He's also a major investor in the company, so.
Must are Digital Performer, or Logic though I know some are moving to PT.
SB truly Mp support? Hmm. Ask Vin about that one. He's the expert on that. And it doesn't scale the same Win/MAC.
Oh, no Mac 64 bit Nuendo either.
PT summing is 64 bit float now. Natively at least. Not sure about HD. Nuendo is still 32 bit float.
Offline Export? Yeah, when it works. How about real time export and the fact you can't stop it, or you risk CORRUPTING your session.
Yeah, that's what users want. have you used the midi?
While Cubase is more advance, yes, there are many, many things kdm has point out that make working in PT easier and faster.
Yamaha has had years to compete. They passed. Fredo stated it, "we don't want to be PT." They don't want to compete. It is obvious by their lack of interest in putting in needed features that the users have requested for something 1 person wanted.
When was VCa available in Nuendo? Never!
Open Multiple project? I'd rather have import session data. (Match tracks. Brillant)
Eucon not Yukon, is now part of Pro Tools.
Affordable MADI? PT 9 works with RME MADI card. You can still use the SSL Madi boxes.
How about this for PT.
Video WORKS. No sync issues like kdm discovered.
Multiple Video tracks. Advanced video editing.
Color multiple tracks.
Disable multiple tracks.
Add 192 tracks in 5 seconds (In Nuendo you can only add 100 a time and it take 30 seconds)
Reorder tracks in the mixer.
Easier window layouts.
Track layouts.
True Free Routing. Works like a console. You can feed back. That's free routing.
Dual Mono/Multi Mono support.
User surround configuration.
Higher end plugins (Neyrinck)
Solo Mute work properly.
OMF/AAF work properly
Timecode works in ALL version as well as feet and frames.
System link isn't even close to Satellite. System link is slow. Its midi based ethernet isn't it? Satellite isn't.
Punch in on a record machine without any lag.
Pro Tools just offers more in the way of what Pros need. Nuendo was great back in the day, but they missed the boat by a mile.
Doesn't matter what features the include. If feature A breaks part of Feature B which breaks basic things, it becomes worthless.
You all think the more complicated the better. Its the opposite. The simpler the better. You spend 9 hours a day working, not 12 because the other 3 was figuring out what was going wrong and figuring out YET ANOTHER work around.
Simple! Working.
LEX
Open Multiple project? I'd rather have import session data. (Match tracks. Brillant)
Ditto. Just my opinion since I know some have used this successfully, but for me multiple sessions open in Nuendo is asking for trouble since most of my work is using memory hungry VSTis - probably okay for light/mid load mixes. I was in the habit of manually saving incremental file names every notable change in a project (often with 100 versions of a simple 10 minute corp. promo - crazy).
System link isn't even close to Satellite. System link is slow. Its midi based ethernet isn't it? Satellite isn't.
Sys link is via digital I/O - lightpipe, SPDIF, AES. It actually worked great when I tried it (in terms of lock), but with SysLink you are using Cubase/Nuendo on the slave to host video..so...um...video has to work. ;-) That was the problem I ran into - had to have a fast enough system for video and still convert video to be sure Cubase (which I had slaved to Nuendo), could handle it. At the time, my only slave powerful enough for HD video wouldn't load Cubase 4 for some bizarre reason (kept scanning every dll on the system on startup, including hidden files, and crashing). Oh the never ending chain of problems I never wish to revisit.
Satellite seems the better way to go.
Ditto. Just my opinion since I know some have used this successfully, but for me multiple sessions open in Nuendo is asking for trouble since most of my work is using memory hungry VSTis - probably okay for light/mid load mixes. I was in the habit of manually saving incremental file names every notable change in a project (often with 100 versions of a simple 10 minute corp. promo - crazy).
Sys link is via digital I/O - lightpipe, SPDIF, AES. It actually worked great when I tried it (in terms of lock), but with SysLink you are using Cubase/Nuendo on the slave to host video..so...um...video has to work. ;-) That was the problem I ran into - had to have a fast enough system for video and still convert video to be sure Cubase (which I had slaved to Nuendo), could handle it. At the time, my only slave powerful enough for HD video wouldn't run Cubase 4 for some bizarre reason (kept scanning every dll on the system on startup, including hidden files, and crashing). Oh the never ending chain of problems I never wish to revisit.
Satellite seems the better way to go.
That's the thing. Satellite just works. Its nice when you can just install something and go. When you have to fuck around with something for hours, it takes away from the enjoyment of what you need to do.
I've used Satellite with AVID Media Composer right to a single LE version and they all work as they are suppose to.
And you can record for as long as you want without running into RAM issues.
LEX
nikki-k
11-05-2010, 04:34 AM
Sticking with Cubase. As a composer/recordist doing only my own stuff now, and no need to move sessions about..
RTAS for VI's is still buggered.
Delay Comp suffers due to Daddy HD.
Score, but no TAB, no Chords, No lyrics, etc.
$2000 for extra tracks? LMAO!!! (only 96? lol)
App is still 32-bit, and no real way to take advantage of >4G memory (VE Pro, at some point, will play quite nicely with PT I imagine; but $300 for something I can do with jBridge + Cubase for $15, or Reaper)
No voicing in non-HD
Comp feature is awful, and suffers due to... Daddy HD.
Input Monitoring only for HD (Native and TDM)
Track Punch HD Only
And other things...
It is getting closer. Definitely a nice package now, and for pro's and idiots, it is a no brainer.
nikki-k
11-05-2010, 04:51 AM
Oh yeah.. does PT9 automatically compensate for nonAvid hardware?
Did they fix the sample placement error? (might have been Win only for that one.. would have to dig into the DUC posts from a year ago I think)
paulwr
11-05-2010, 01:18 PM
Staying with Cubase 5 for now, 64bit all the way around. jBridge has my plugs and vsti's working fine. No video issues here for the frame rates I'm using. Usually 29drop, but fine wtih 23.97, 24, 25. Hate the problem with export, though. That really must get fixed right away. I can see a potential shift to using PT for driving the audio from all my slaves and the mixing there. IF it shows to be working well with RTAS vs VST. There are a couple places that could use my mix as a session and just tweak to their preferences from there.
-Paul
Animus
11-05-2010, 01:38 PM
I am sticking with Nuendo but I am interested in Protools 9. I might get it and start playing it it on the side. Steinberg definitely have to start listening to their customers else we will all just go to the darkside.
funkcity
11-05-2010, 01:43 PM
<<When was VCA available in Nuendo? Never!>>
That was my point. It has ALWAYS been asked for
Steinberg invented a lot of the technology that PT is perfecting
My point was Satellite was one of those things.
<<EuCon>> vs. Yukon....my poor brain! :)
Now that Martin and Lars (The original Nuendo engineers) work for Avid you'll see even more Steinberg to Avid morphing.
<<Yamaha has had years to compete. They passed>>
It's been 10 years with Nuendo. I just found an original brochure hah!
Judging from facts and history, you are correct Lex.
You are only now just starting to see the true value in post
That is: The tighter integration of Media Composer with ProTools.
They have never gotten this right. I spent big bucks on an fiberchannel-based Avid Unity system only to find that it did not support ProTools!
The NitrisDX Media-Composer system (great package btw) only worked on that system.
Steinberg can pride itself for being everyone elses R&D Lab and idea generator.
I'm convinced that even the PT pricing which is $600. for the basic program and CPTK2 $2000. is based on the pricing of Nuendo.
Kinda like Cubase and Nuendo pricing also
I'm not so sure about 64bit fp. I think native is 32fp ???
Many recent TDM buyers are not happy....But hey that's the way it goes.
In short, I'm pretty tight with the Euphonix guys and they are quite happy and pleased with the overall development.
The Avid Euphonix marriage is right for the companies. Its right for the consumer with just a myriad of options at ALL price points.
This development could really alter the fate of all other workstation companies and the major console builders; SSL, Harrison, and AMS/Neve.
While the standardization of PT, Euphonix automation, and EuCon control becomes more entrenched I still like to see other options or even companies that are willing and able to compete.
Take care gang.
zvenx
11-05-2010, 01:43 PM
Thats exactly my position....for now I am sticking with Nuendo. waiting to see what the next update brings..if I am not happy I will buy pro tools as well and over time decide which one becomes my main and only DAW of choice. If Avid made it be able to use vst's that would be an added incentive for me.
rsp
Well I think there will be a few Music guys who will stick with Nuendo as their setup is tied around it.
Post Guys who either work in PT mostly or need PT to compete more with other places will move to PT.
People who have been trying to decide whether to go PT or Nuendo will probably go PT. I think the new potential SB user base pretty much belongs to PT now.
LEX
olamo
11-05-2010, 03:25 PM
As long time pro tools user, I welcome the new shift in paradigma. Having said that; Does it really change anything for me personally? No, not really. Well, it's more conveniant now - no need for the 003 "dongle", and for some projects I Don't have to rent a HD studio. It still leave me with a mixed emotion, though.. Kind of like the evil stepmother turning nice all of a sudden. Being used to mistreatment, you are greatful for not getting punched.
Then, you have the business side of it, which is quite obvious. If you have too much downtime in production, you will loose eventually. You really can't argue against that. That is one of the things Avid really understands (along with their clever/cynical business strategies). Will continue to use both but different purpose..
Ola
paulwr
11-05-2010, 05:13 PM
Well I think there will be a few Music guys who will stick with Nuendo as their setup is tied around it.
Post Guys who either work in PT mostly or need PT to compete more with other places will move to PT.
People who have been trying to decide whether to go PT or Nuendo will probably go PT. I think the new potential SB user base pretty much belongs to PT now.
LEX
I understand your personal pain with SB/Nuendo but I think you're way off and are underestimating how many will continue to use it for music purposes (as opposed to post).
At the Club Cubase meetings here in Nashville, up to two dozen attend at the monthly meetings, and each one I've met is a long time seasoned pro. Average age must be close to 50. These are not fanboys; We all air our gripes.
Though many use Pro Tools when they need to for interfacing with others, they continue to use Nuendo/Cubase (mostly Nuendo) as their main/preferred platform, I haven't heard of anyone switching over to Pro Tools yet, even as the preferred while still using Nuendo. When I add up my costs of jumping to PT native for mixing and handling incoming slave audio, it becomes less attractive quickly for me. If I had to stick with hardware for porting audio from the slaves, I'd be looking at perhaps $10k for interfaces/Mac Computer/PT Native card. Maybe more. All that while not really seeing for sure where for me with my composing workflow, that I'd be saving time from the effort.
-Paul
MattiasNYC
11-05-2010, 05:40 PM
I will wait.
I decided once N 5 came out that I'd wait with investing more into it. I work daily on PT HD (TDM) so I've shifted whatever either "low budget" or "unofficial" work from Nuendo to PT for the last 1 1/2 years. I used it for low budget projects where I could make a few extra bucks essentially just "rolling out of bed and into my workstation". But the video truncation issue really killed it for me. And now when v5 came out I figured I'd better wait and see if there were any serious issues in the software, and more importantly, if there would be any projects coming up that would benefit from working in Nuendo.
I'll just wait and see what PT 9 has to offer. I won't be crossgrading from N4.x to their Native Core system since that's more than I feel like spending for the work I'm likely to do at home, which leaves me with their "low-end" version which for me then competes directly with upgrading to Nv5. It's on the edge. Paying $600 (I wouldn't, but still) would give me N4 AND PT9. If I get the opportunity to do "minor" work from home more often just being able to open up a session on either workstation without any conversion software is a big deal. I spend about 1 1/2 hour in the subway each day I work in the city. At what, $600 full msrp that'd be about 15hrs more work at my lower rate which equals just above what I'd save in travel time in a week! All kinds of ways to look at this.
I think some people are right when they say that a lot of this is good marketing, and that caveats will be evident especially as the software gets into serious use. But from Steinbergs standpoint the problem isn't that people don't get that Nuendo is better (assuming it is, or at least giving a better price/performance ratio) but instead that people actually choose PT9 instead of Nuendo!
After all, what good does it do a company to know that their product is better for the money if people buy the competitors product instead???
Daryl
11-06-2010, 11:17 AM
I wonder how many of the Mac features of PT don't exist in Windows versions. I remember this being an issue a good few years ago, but have things changed? Come to think of it, video out via Firewire (for example) wasn't even available in Nuendo 4, Windows version. :>o
D
I wonder how many of the Mac features of PT don't exist in Windows versions. I remember this being an issue a good few years ago, but have things changed? Come to think of it, video out via Firewire (for example) wasn't even available in Nuendo 4, Windows version. :>o
D
They are identical in both versions.
LEX
Daryl
11-06-2010, 12:35 PM
They are identical in both versions.
LEX
Not according to the PT9 manual. For example:
Toggle output of QuickTime video between
the Video window and an external monitor
using the FireWire port (without an Avid
Video peripheral this is supported with Mac
only) or PCIe (with a qualified video card)
D
Daryl, this may be a Mac/OSX-only capability with firewire in general (I don't think Sony's Vegas supports video out firewire, unless it has been added recently - could be wrong, but don't recall ever seeing it as an option on my system).
Regardless, my intent is to run video satellite anyway for HD playback in perfect sync with PT. Perfect. Otherwise, PT is the same on both platforms.
Not according to the PT9 manual. For example:
D
So you can't toggle between the video window and external video over firewire. Wow. That's just a deal breaker.
But at least you can run video over firewire on both, you just can't toggle between the two.
Satellite is the answer anyway. Solid, full HD. No wierdness.
LEX
Daryl
11-06-2010, 01:08 PM
LEX, whether it is a deal breaker or not is not the issue i was raising. All I was saying was that within 5 minutes of looking at the manual I found that there was at least one difference between the Mac and PC versions. yes another reason not to rush into anything, and I haven't even looked at the MIDI features, or lack of them, yet. :wink:
D
Daryl
11-06-2010, 01:10 PM
Daryl, this may be a Mac/OSX-only capability with firewire in general (I don't think Sony's Vegas supports video out firewire, unless it has been added recently - could be wrong, but don't recall ever seeing it as an option on my system).
Regardless, my intent is to run video satellite anyway for HD playback in perfect sync with PT. Perfect. Otherwise, PT is the same on both platforms.
So you need more than one computer? I don't work that way, so for me it is a real difference, not theoretical. Just sayin'...
D
So you need more than one computer? I don't work that way, so for me it is a real difference, not theoretical. Just sayin'...
D
I do - I run 4 currently - the way I prefer to work. Having video separate will allow me to run full uncompressed HD (too resource intensive to do it within PT/Nuendo). Satellite LE has perfect lock, scrub, etc.
For you I can see firewire being more attractive since you work with one high powered system. Still going to be some hit on resources, esp. if firewire is sharing with anything else, but it's all relative - a little resource hit here or there can be worth it if it fits your workflow.
Livewire
11-08-2010, 05:45 AM
I have used Nuendo since v1 however for the first time I decided not to upgrade when v5 came around. I mainly do post sound work on Fairlight dream systems and I have nuendo at my home studio for sound design duties mainly. For music I use various things but mainly cubase 5 since it had batch export well before Nuendo. This annoyed me to no end that cubase 5 had a number of features that nuendo 4 really should have had that I ended up buying it. Funnily enough I use it a hell of a lot more than nuendo now.
I have found that omf import and video playback has never quite seemed right in Nuendo (and i cant believe the problems you guys have been having with n5 video) Trying to backup huge projects has also been dodgy as files seem to go missing although they should be in the audio folder when imported. These problems should not exist if steinberg want post professionals to take them seriously.
The omition of mpex2 (which I believe sounds better than the mpex3 and 4 algos) was also very annoying and the warping function in n4 was totally screwed compared to nuendo 3. The realtime algo for pitch shift and timestretch is terrible and practically unusable and I am very interested in pt9 for this reason.
I was truly hoping yamaha would come to the table with a new integrated serious hardware controller but the hasn't happened either.
I really do think there are some great features in nuendo but tbh I prefer cubase as it always seems to be ahead and it's cheaper. Instead of upgrading to n5 I'll be getting pt9.
Daryl
11-08-2010, 08:07 AM
It also seems that Blackmagic cards are only supported with OSX, so another difference between Windows and OSX versions.
D
WEll this has always been a big one. Session compatibility with Nuendo.
Brought home work, worked in PT9, then went back to my studio with an HD rig and Pt 8.04, session opened and was fine.
LEX
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