Nuendo Inside?

[Daryl]

I like the sound of this:

http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=23248

D

[olamo]

I like the sound of this:

http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=23248

D

+1

[TAFKAT]

4. Only the Nuendo Planning Team is allowed to ask questions – we’d be delighted if these questions could be answered by the respective user. Call me a cynic, but am I the only one reading thru those rules thinking WTF , the one above had me scratching my head, whats the point of questions being a one way street ?

Someone tell me how this will be any better than having an open forum where ideas can be fleshed out and collaborated on directly with the devs.

[Daryl]

Hence my question on n.com :098:

D

[Animus]

Hence my question on n.com :098:

D


That sounds more like an answer :-)

[MattiasNYC]

I still think this is sort of silly.

Over the years there has been plenty of discussions on the forum between members about feature requests, feature changes and fixes of bugs. Simply participating in said discussions would have given them more information. The only thing I can see that they can achieve here other than on the regular sections of the forum is crowd control and damage control, i.e if a topic makes a logical turn into something embarrassing they can shut it down by arguing that it's just the developers that ask questions.

Seems to me the better solution would be a Steinberg employee running the forum as a moderator and then clearly handing over what is the concerns of the users to developers. Just a link would suffice to steer the developers to the correct thread so that they can participate in a TWO-WAY discussion and get input.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong, maybe this will all be great.....

[MattiasNYC]

One more thing though:

If it's true that so many users and owners of Nuendo are not participating on the forums, then this seems like an odd idea.... Unless they show up all of a sudden.... which is possible of course...

[zvenx]

One more thing though:

If it's true that so many users and owners of Nuendo are not participating on the forums, then this seems like an odd idea.... Unless they show up all of a sudden.... which is possible of course...

I can see/understand that many users don't participate..what I find a hard time believing is that this same users are often:
1) unlike the majority of forum posters in their wishes etc for Nuendo (we are typically told other users requested x in droves etc (my words))
2) somehow these ppl dont' have the time or inclination to join the forum but still find the time and inclination to contact SB with feature requests etc....... granted I haven't used their phone support in about two years, but often I would report bugs there and then would have to report them on the forum to get them fixed..........so I find it odd that SB is responsive to those 'other' users.......unless there is a secret phone number and handshake ;)
rsp

[TerryG]

I can already hear the justifications for not addressing issues:

"We asked for people to show up on a specific day just to check in and see if the specific topic was anything they had experience with. Several people with the greatest amount of experience and specific knowledge failed to respond to this issue in the specified communication period last Tuesday between 12:00AM to Thursday at 11:59PM... it is not our fault that they were not available during that time. We cannot be responsible for listening to requests at the convenience of our userbase. This issue was evidently not important enough for them to make other arrangements."


http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=186567#186567


Under the current scheme, this can only be effective if the most knowledgeable people experiencing the specific problem of the specific topic are online and available to hang around and wait for a question to be asked in order to contribute a response during that specific 3-day window.

This appears to be counterproductive in obtaining the best possible information.
You are not making yourselves available to the userbase.
You are making the userbase accountable for making themselves available to you.

If you want to maximize the chances for obtaining the best collective database of information, contact all registered users via email in advance with an announcement of the specific online Insider topic and timeline, and provide them with an opportunity to respond directly to that email if they will not be available at the time of your online discussion.

Short of that, you could simply do a better job of monitoring the existing topics and issues raised here on a regular basis.

[paulwr]

I'd say the best bet is just to tell your biggest requests to Greg Ondo and let him pass them along to Steinberg. Let him know what your professional work is and it may help when he passes it along. He deals with mainly pro's as far as I can tell..... at least in Nashville that's the case. SB jumps for no one, but getting the info from the SB North America guy in the US that deals with more pros than anyone might actually be helpful. He had me send some specific emails about my problems with bugs rather than just passing it along verbablly for me.

If you don't have his email (not sure I'm supposed to give it out broadly) then Brian McGovern would do something with the requests, including tipping off Greg Ondo.

my 2 cents.

-Paul

[TAFKAT]

I'd say the best bet is just to tell your biggest requests to Greg Ondo and let him pass them along to Steinberg.

And why pray tell would that be any different ?

He is simply another cog working within the same inherent M.O.

It doesn't matter who you voice your specifics to, unless the M.O changes, all you will get are a lot of empty promises and lip service. Ondo doesn't have any more pull than the other reps who filter in and out of the forums delivering the lip service. All of this B.S that Brian babbled about them collecting far more street level feedback directly from end users / reps who do not participate on the forums is questionable - and I'm being polite.

I still maintain I don't see the benefit in this half arsed attempt at a one way street, like Matt also noted, this is simply a way for them to control the exchange. They may as well just poll their so called huge ground level resource who do not participate at the forums, after all , they tell us that the vast majority do not bother reading in there, so who the fark is this actually targeting. The so called small minority that they consider insignificant and do not reflect the real state of affairs in regards to the end users qualms ?

S.O.S.O !!

[MattiasNYC]

Just to add one thing;

first, let me preface this by saying that I'm drawing this from years of owning Nuendo, not necessarily from recent history....

The level of knowledge of the product (Nuendo) and it's functionality an current bugs is highly variable between the people working for Steinberg

I think that says it all. But to drive the point home: Some of the people who I have been told are the more knowledgeable people haven't even been up to date on the most pressing design flaws/bugs, so talking to a person like that will be problematic. A person like that will often (did to me) deny or mistrust information about flaws/bugs in the software. So the first step will be to convince them - NOT that the problem exists, but to even check in the first place. Then the process can begin of them trying to lobby for the fix of the problem (assuming they even see it that way). And some of the most forthcoming and reasonable people I've dealt with have still had very little pull it seems with Steinberg Germany.

Sorry for being a downer on this and still a skeptic, but I think the past validates my concerns.

And lastly:

With the official announcement by Avid that there is a PT HD Native and considering a relatively large amount of negative opinions on several places one would have thought that SB would have seized that opportunity to lobby for their product. If prospective PT HD owners are making a noise over the price, the software, or whatever - it really doesn't matter - it's a golden opportunity for SB to make their presence known and promote their products!.... Anybody see anything?.....

I won't even get into Yamaha and their continuing lack of coming up with hardware products tailored for or highly integrated with Nuendo.... It's just nonsense. The days of huge slow corporations is over in our segment of this industry.

[MattiasNYC]

Also......

I think a question can be posed from the opposite angle; rather than ask what's wrong with the "Nuendo Inside program" perhaps ask:


1) What feedback is it they have not received?

2) Why have they not received that feedback?


If anyone "supporting" this new initiative have any ideas I for one am interested and all ears....

[colony nofi]

Slightly off topic alert...


With the official announcement by Avid that there is a PT HD Native and considering a relatively large amount of negative opinions on several places one would have thought that SB would have seized that opportunity to lobby for their product. If prospective PT HD owners are making a noise over the price, the software, or whatever - it really doesn't matter - it's a golden opportunity for SB to make their presence known and promote their products!.... Anybody see anything?.....

Well, it depends on the way you look at it. PT HD Native will be a success for avid. They are not in the least bit concerned about the banter on gearslutz / kvr /etc - because they have customers lining up for this product. The people who complain are the people whom this product doesn't work for (price, or features.) But that doesn't mean there isn't a market for that product, at the price they market it for. Avid are a very clever hardware company. Even with all their recent troubles...
I am surprised by the high number of places here in sydney who are primed to buy this - &the number of smaller operators who are also ready to take the plunge. The number of seats of PT Native I know personally going into sydney already significantly outstrips the number of nuendo seats total in this town. No amount of lobbying by yamaha would have changed even a single one of the PT seats to nuendo. It is going to take a far larger paradigm shift than that imho.

But just my opinion. cheers! Brendan.

[kdm]

The number of seats of PT Native I know personally going into sydney already significantly outstrips the number of nuendo seats total in this town. No amount of lobbying by yamaha would have changed even a single one of the PT seats to nuendo. It is going to take a far larger paradigm shift than that imho.


The same seems to be true here as well. Avid probably made the smartest move they could to appeal to the customer requests for a "native" solution, without jeopardizing their HD line. Most likely, there is more to come that will find in the current gaps. Nuendo is a great app, but it suffers from trying to beat ProTools and win a standards-solidified industry by doing audio its' own way. It won't, and can't work. At the current rate, Nuendo will never be more popular than Sequoia is, though Sequoia at least has somewhat of a niche with classical mastering.

There is quite a bit that ProTools simple does better or more efficiently than Nuendo, despite Nuendo's larger feature set. Avid will win this one hands down without a shot being fired from any other native DAW.

[Timo Wildenhain]

The problem with "open discussions" is that they're sometimes hardly evaluable. In the past there has been so many discussions about features wishes etc.
that have easily taken 20 pages of the forum with dozens of sub-discussions that cannot be evaluated effectively.

The goal of Nuendo Inside is NOT to start again discussing new feature wishes, but to focus on a specific feature wish/topic (that was already mentioned to us)
and directly ask our users how this feature could look like. A feature can be implemented in several ways and we want to know more about
the different workflows and why a specific function is needed or not.

People are sometimes complaining why certain features are not implemented in a way they prefer.
Nuendo Inside offers the possibility to tell us how your workflow looks like regarding specific functionalities.

This is certainly a new approach and I'm eager to see how it works. I'm convinced it will provide us
more accurate, evaluable information in order to implement functions in a way our users prefer.

Thanks.

[Sam]

Thanks for the explanation Timo - I may be in a minority but I agree it easier for clarities sake to have an organised discussion like that. And as long as all your ears have been open to the many years of feature requests that have been languishing in forgotten corners of the forum then there will be some real benifit to us getting the most out of them when/if they are implemented....

[dada]

I agree.
This seems to be a good idea !

Only time will tell, if Steinberg will choose the 'right' features, to discuss ...

If the topic is 'Multitrack Drum Quantizing', I'm more than willing to spend time and energy, on getting a usable implementation.
If the topic is 'How to enhance LoopMash' ... well ...

And it will probably take a year, to be able to evaluate how the users input has been 'incorporated'.

bye, Jan

[MattiasNYC]

The problem with "open discussions" is that they're sometimes hardly evaluable. In the past there has been so many discussions about features wishes etc.
that have easily taken 20 pages of the forum with dozens of sub-discussions that cannot be evaluated effectively.

Discussions have a tendency, quite naturally, to "branch off" into sub-topics. Some are relevant, others not. When it happens in a "normal" forum the alternatives are to either weed through the "noise" which can be difficult, or to weed out irrelevant material. The latter would be the task of the moderator.

The former is partially a result of a lack of participation by you guys. In other words; if you had your developers participate in threads where people talk about a feature it would be more natural for the thread to stay on topic as there would be an "official" party to actually discuss with. So one wonders why it hasn't been done before (yes, I understand time is a factor).

The latter you should be able to guess "our" opinion on.

Considering that you are posting your comment on this forum (!) I'll just add that some here have put in tremendous amounts of time testing Nuendo's features and performance and will be unable to participate, which in conjunction with the reported large amount of other pro users that aren't on the forums regularly makes one wonder if your forum is the best place for it as opposed to a survey for example. To be blunt: Previously you've banned users because they've made points you don't like to hear, NOT solely for "disturbing the peace", so it's curious that you now call on the users for the type of input they've already given but some have gotten banned for.

Anyways, I'm sure there are many users that are glad that others than the moderator are to engage in a discussion (and we'll see how open it'll end up being) after having virtually zero presence there. I'm still confused why they haven't participated before, or why you simply haven't started a thread on a new feature wish for clarfication purposes before, but whatever. Perhaps this provides some sort of "order" that you need in order to get proper information.

I just hope this isn't a case where you ask a question and then control the thread to get the answers you want to hear....

[MattiasNYC]

I agree.
This seems to be a good idea !

Only time will tell, if Steinberg will choose the 'right' features, to discuss ...

If the topic is 'Multitrack Drum Quantizing', I'm more than willing to spend time and energy,
on getting a usable implementation.
If the topic is 'How to enhance LoopMash' ... well ...

bye, Jan

I think you're exposing a potential "issue" with this new "system" of information gathering...

[dada]

I agree.
This seems to be a good idea !

Only time will tell, if Steinberg will choose the 'right' features, to discuss ...

If the topic is 'Multitrack Drum Quantizing', I'm more than willing to spend time and energy, on getting a usable implementation.
If the topic is 'How to enhance LoopMash' ... well ...

And it will probably take a year, to be able to evaluate how the users input has been 'incorporated'.
I think you're exposing a potential "issue" with this new "system" of information gathering...
Yep, and I just added another to my post above :
It will take quite a long time, to see the outcome ...
... talking about the (up to now) usual waste of time and energy.

As for all their missed opportunities in the past .... this may be a step in the right direction ...

bye, Jan

[Daryl]

Well I'm having fun so far.....! I hope that Thonex is not wasting this opportunity. :rotfl:

D

[Animus]

VCA groups god nabbit!! Nuendo 5 and it's still not here!

[TAFKAT]

Looks like Thonex doesn't even know the party has started without him.

[Daryl]

Looks like Thonex doesn't even know the party has started without him.

:palm: :eusa_wall:

[Animus]

Poor Thonex and his decade old or so campaign for Hide Tracks.

[ROCKINROG]

:rotfl: Some day it'll get in there.

[TAFKAT]

Thonex still hasn't reared his head... :-(

Man this is sad, the guy that for years fought for the implementation of this feature, doesn't even know this is on.

I just emailed him..

[zvenx]

I emailed him this am. so he does now. but yeah that would have been so sad.
rsp

[TAFKAT]

I see he has now joined the party..

I think this one sentence summed it all up for me in response to Question 2: Unused Tracks and the reasons ?


Basically all the ideas I laid out in my original thread.

All has already been outlined countless times , I haven't seen any new initiatives suggested past what Andrew has been hammering on about for years.

[MattiasNYC]

I see he has now joined the party..

I think this one sentence summed it all up for me in response to Question 2: Unused Tracks and the reasons ?



I haven't seen any new initiatives suggested past what Andrew has been hammering on about for years.

Yeah, but this time it's different Vin....

[TAFKAT]

Of course.... Shite what was that... ?

http://www.dawbench.com/images/steinberg-pig.jpg

[Thonex]

Thanks guys for alerting me to this.

Heh... it is rather funny that after about 5 years of campaigning for this they want to discuss this for 3 days in a different forum. I would have 100% missed this had it not been for you guys!!!

Thanks again.

P.S. They should have no shortage of ideas. I had given Arnd Kaiser pages of notes and features about this at an LA Meeting about 5 years ago.

[Animus]

Thanks guys for alerting me to this.

Heh... it is rather funny that after about 5 years of campaigning for this they want to discuss this for 3 days in a different forum. I would have 100% missed this had it not been for you guys!!!

Thanks again.

P.S. They should have no shortage of ideas. I had given Arnd Kaiser pages of notes and features about this at an LA Meeting about 5 years ago.

Sorry, VCA groups comes before Hide Tracks. don't make me come to fisticuffs with you! I've waited for years and I ain't letting nothing stand in my way!

:-)

[Thonex]

Sorry, VCA groups comes before Hide Tracks. don't make me come to fisticuffs with you! I've waited for years and I ain't letting nothing stand in my way!

:-)

hehe.... how many views did the VCA groups thread have? ;-)

[ROCKINROG]

Of course.... Shite what was that... ?

http://www.dawbench.com/images/steinberg-pig.jpg


:rotfl:

[TAFKAT]

hehe.... how many views did the VCA groups thread have? ;-)

There was a VGA groups thread ?

[Animus]

There was a VGA groups thread ?


It was an earlier Nuendo Inside that you guys weren't invited too.

[LEX]

Seems interesting, but how much different is this really going to be?

As we have all been told, SB has a road map already out 2 years in advance, so does that mean ONE thing from the inside might make it into Nuendo 6 or 7?

I know I am cynical, but it seems like after all this time, and all the campaigning to get features like hide unused tracks, dual mono to stereo tracks, user configured 5.1, VCA groups ect go to the bottom of the list, and the features the engineers and developers want come first.

Interestingly enough, they don't do what we do. Maybe from a "hobby", or semi part time point of view, but that doesn't compare to those who walk up every single day, and do it.

Will be interesting to see if anything makes it into V5. I don't see that happening personally. It is rare that a user requested feature makes it into Nuendo anyway.

Good luck with that.

LEX

[ibmcgovern]

Vin...

Well, I thank you for being polite. :) You are not located in the US, so I can see how you have no idea of the field work and support that we provide. We collect data from all levels of end users as I have always stated. Some decide to interact with people like me ad Greg, others don't. That is your choice. None of this is lip service.

As far as this Inside effort, this is being ran by a relatively new team, not the same folk some of you may have communicated with over the years. If their questions seem redundant, I apologize. But please consider this another avenue to have your voices heard.

Have a great day.

[TAFKAT]

Vin...

Well, I thank you for being polite. :) You are not located in the US, so I can see how you have no idea of the field work and support that we provide. We collect data from all levels of end users as I have always stated. Some decide to interact with people like me ad Greg, others don't. That is your choice. None of this is lip service.

Don't patronise me Mate,

I don't need to be in the US to get an idea of your current and ongoing M.O , your track record when the shit hit the fan with the Long Recording Time / Waveform Peak Files debacle - to name just one - was enough for me to see where your level of support remains.

Whether its all lip service or not will be decided in what if anything actually eventuates out of this new incentive.


As far as this Inside effort, this is being ran by a relatively new team, not the same folk some of you may have communicated with over the years. If their questions seem redundant, I apologize. But please consider this another avenue to have your voices heard.Voices being heard are of absolutely no value if nothing eventuates !

Everyone of those points raised in the recent event was detailed by Thonex and handed to the powers at Steinberg years ago , now all of a sudden everyone gets all wet because you have decided to show some interest again after it seems the original notes from Thonex got lost , well, forgive me if I remain cynical until something actually eventuates.

IMO - The horse has already bolted, and this all a little too late in so far as Nuendo, you are already losing long term users at a growing rate of knots which will turn into an avalanche next few months as the PT9 Native expansion goes wild..

Its been Fun.. :-)

[zvenx]

just to say I prefer at least everyone being given a chance to voice how a FR will be implemented. Of course it is yet to be seen if it will be implemented. But if it is, I definitely prefer this way for track unhide rather than Thonex's original FR be used as the only blueprint.
rsp

[TAFKAT]

Richard,

What if anything that came out of the recent discussion is distinctly different to what Thonex proposed ?

Also, what stopped others voicing opinions on the normal threads that have been running for years ?

[zvenx]

Hi Vin, I haven't seen Timo's summaries. Assuming they were done. But certainly I know I (and a few others) had different views than Andrew (thonex) on several of the points of use. Of course if they make every thing as an option, we will all be happy. But if they were done via Andrew's blue print there would have been somethings I would have been unhappy with......

we shall see how the implementation goes.
rsp

[UntamedSpirit]

Nuendo has been a terrific exercise in "how not to market and support a great idea".

It seems they fired everyone "except" those driving in the coffin nails.

Brian,unless you think you are Victor Frankenstein, you should probably move on too ;)

Or

maybe the Cubendo monster will rise from all of this.

[ibmcgovern]

Patronizing not intended Vin. Apologize if you took it that way. It's the reality, just as I have no clue about activity in Oz. And, never claim so. I chat with a number of people I met on various forums and I always assure their voices get communicated.

As far as the long record session topic, I've been very upfront and communicating with folk consistently about this. As I am with any topic I get involved in. I've been traveling, can't be on forums 24/7, so hence the absence.

Still doing what I can, as best I can. Those who would like to contact me are welcomed at any time.

Have a good day my friend.

[ibmcgovern]

Rob, move on where? Not sure I follow?

[UntamedSpirit]

Rob, move on where? Not sure I follow?

Brian,you seem like a dynamic and well intentioned guy.

I have been a Steinberg user since the 90's so have a jaded view of the company.

"Move on" was an oblique reference to finding a company who deserves your enthusiasm.

As I said, jaded and disappointed Steinberg user, but I like your willingness to bring Nuendo back to life.

[OpenMind]

Web Care Teams...

These are the latest "secret" weapon for big(ger) companies to psychologicly fight against the negative impact that online consumer complaints may cause for their products.

These teams have a full job by scanning the internet minute by minute for negative product discussions, so they can jump in at an early moment to minimize the negative impact on sales.
The goal for these teams is to give the consumers the impression that the company really cares for their customers, so the discussion stops or will be in doubt before it will be spread in a viral way.

It is very important for a company to do this at an early stage, because when they act too late or when they act like there's nothing wrong with their products, at a later moment in time it's going to cost them (tens of) milions to get rid of their bad name.

In the past (pre internet ages) a big company was not likely to be harmed by bad consumer experiences, unless the big media would put their focus on the problem... and then still, in most cases the companies only needed to threaten those media with legal procedures to protect themselves.
Today this doesn't work anymore, because the consumers have their own power by organizing themselves on the internet... and who should you turn to when you want to start a legal pocedure against the internet?

[John Lance]

Sorry, VCA groups comes before Hide Tracks. don't make me come to fisticuffs with you! I've waited for years and I ain't letting nothing stand in my way!
:-)

:098:
And a completely working solo/mute system with automatable mutes, working with folders and everything else, without excuses: and configurable for the peculiar end user needing slightly different operation than "normal" (which ain't me).

:098: for hide tracks too, only because I know some folks REALLY need it.

:098: for better usage of system resources, for folks needing terribly long sessions, or a high track count and bumping into current "limitations".

ATM I'm not sure I really care that much though.

[TAFKAT]

The latest Nuendo Inside on MXF support has been up and running for a week and is basically a graveyard.

Sign of the times...

[Sam]

It's a sign of Nuendo definately being used for 'Post' the world over. Put up a question on grouping, vca's, import session data, multitrack editing/playlists etc and I am sure it would actually light up like a fricken Christmas tree :) But then again, that stuff is kinda 'music' focused....haha well not really but it seems we music folks are the ones always asking for it :)

[TerryG]

The latest Nuendo Inside on MXF support has been up and running for a week and is basically a graveyard.

Sign of the times...

There's a brand new MXF support document PDF in the Nuendo 5 folder at Steinberg's FTP...
Looks like they started a topic just for information's sake since they'd already started publishing the document.

ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/Nuendo_5/ReadMe_MXF.pdf

[LEX]

The latest Nuendo Inside on MXF support has been up and running for a week and is basically a graveyard.

Sign of the times...

Problem is, unless they are leaving out the US, people aren't using MFX here yet. AAF is being used more than OMF, but both are still being used.

Unless I've misunderstood, it is largely video interchange that MFX is being used for ATM.

I think SB has missed an opportunity for a better used session then with MFX. But again, maybe else where in the world they are using it more.
So maybe, the US side of Post isn't important for SB and Nuendo.

LEX

[MattiasNYC]

I thought it was a bit ironic that the only "real review" I've seen in big media of Nuendo v5 was by Chuck Ainlay!....

uhm.....


It's a sign of Nuendo definately being used for 'Post' the world over. Put up a question on grouping, vca's, import session data, multitrack editing/playlists etc and I am sure it would actually light up like a fricken Christmas tree :) But then again, that stuff is kinda 'music' focused....haha well not really but it seems we music folks are the ones always asking for it :)

[ibmcgovern]

M2

Actually, that is just one review of numerous - and I only refer to the US bound. Russ Long performed one in PAR for example and there's another in Sound On Sound. As they come in, I'm getting them placed on our site, so feel free to check them out there.

Hope all is well.