Updated to N5.01 and latest quicktime

[olamo]

Updated both Nuendo and quicktime, bummer :palm:
now I've got a lousy video performance in Nuendo.
Both photojpg and prores422 are affected.

Tested on on two different computers.

Anyone have an idea: similar degraded video performance with N5.01 or any spesific quicktime version that seems to work well?

Ola

[Sam]

I have 5.01 with latest QT with great results through my decklink HD using proresHQ

[olamo]

I have 5.01 with latest QT with great results through my decklink HD using proresHQ

Thanks for the info Sam, I don't have a decklink though. And Windows 7 x64..

Ola

[olamo]

Videos run in both Pro tools 8 and Sequoia/Samplitude without an issue, back to N5 and video stutters/lost frames.. What is the deal here Steinberg?
I had high expectations to N5 in post, but when problems start already here, oh well.. Did Steinberg made a "how to encode video for Nuendo with optimal performance/quality"?
The tutorial made by Steve didn't cut it for me.

Maybe I should get a blackmagic card, but that would be only for Nuendo. For the other workstations I run I don't need it.

Ola

[paulwr]

Videos run in both Pro tools 8 and Sequoia/Samplitude without an issue, back to N5 and video stutters/lost frames.. What is the deal here Steinberg?
I had high expectations to N5 in post, but when problems start already here, oh well.. Did Steinberg made a "how to encode video for Nuendo with optimal performance/quality"?
The tutorial made by Steve didn't cut it for me.

Maybe I should get a blackmagic card, but that would be only for Nuendo. For the other workstations I run I don't need it.

Ola

You must have a video card that support Open GL 2.0 or later. Do you? Made all the difference here on Cubase 5 and 5.5.

-Paul

[olamo]

Hi Paul,

Yes the card is OpenGL 2.0..

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/m_series/m9120pluslpx16/?productTabs=1

[TAFKAT]

Hey Ola,

I am not familiar with this particular Matrox card- haven't used Matrox in 4 + years to be honest, but I can't help feeling this is directly related to the Matrox drivers. It is interesting its working in Pro tools 8 and Sequoia/Samplitude , but that may be down to a better GUI resource implementation , which wouldn't surprise me.

How many monitors are you running off this particular card , 2 or 4 , and do you have an alternate card to try ?

There are so many idiosyncrasies with Cubendo and video, I always recommend using a Decklink card to any of my clients requiring that capability, and they work very well. Even the Intensity Pro will fit the bill in most cases. Very affordable and well worth it to circumnavigate the issues.

[paulwr]

Hi Paul,

Yes the card is OpenGL 2.0..

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/m_series/m9120pluslpx16/?productTabs=1

Gigabyte 9800 GT is what I upgraded to and am having such good luck with. It is Open GL 2.1, not sure if that could be a difference.
Only about $150 with tax and shipping added, at Newegg.com.

-Paul

[olamo]

Thanks for your suggestions Vin and Paul. I have three monitors connected to the card. I will try to swap the matrix with something else to see if it works better.

As for the decklink, I have considered that for a long time, but unfortunately Sequoia does not support it. So I then have to manually switch the monitor.. Hmm..
BTW poster on n.com and there are other users with q6600 with video problems. I thought the point with the updated video engine was to make it work ;-) oh well, back to investigation.

Cheers

[paulwr]

BTW poster on n.com and there are other users with q6600 with video problems. I thought the point with the updated video engine was to make it work ;-) oh well, back to investigation.

Cheers

I'm still using a Q6600 on my main DAW and its on that system that the Gigabyte 9800 GT solved my video probles. I love having the extra frame rates available. I'm getting great results with 29.97df, 25, 23.97. Haven't tested others yet.
C5.5 should have the same video engine as N5 from what I understand.

-Paul

[olamo]

I'm still using a Q6600 on my main DAW and its on that system that the Gigabyte 9800 GT solved my video probles. I love having the extra frame rates available. I'm getting great results with 29.97df, 25, 23.97. Haven't tested others yet.
C5.5 should have the same video engine as N5 from what I understand.

-Paul

Thanks Paul, will give it a try. Thinking about it; the different DAWs use different libraries for playing video. AFAIK either PT or Sequoia is based on OpenGL for their video engine, so if the OpenGL part of the Matrox driver is weak it is natural that there is a remarkable difference in video performance..

Ola

[olamo]

BTW Anyone knows about a (passive cooler) graphic card with three outputs (if nothing else, 2 x DVI and HDMI output at the same time)?
I hestitated to get a Matrox card, didn't use them before. Easiest solution would be a 3 monitor Geforce or Radeon)

Vin?

Cheers,
Ola

[TerryG]

I think there is one nVidia Quadro with passive cooling that will handle 4 monitors.
NVS 450 I think...

Unless you have space to run a pair of NVS 290/295's

[olamo]

I think there is one nVidia Quadro with passive cooling that will handle 4 monitors.
NVS 450 I think...

Unless you have space to run a pair of NVS 290/295's
Thanks Terry! Will check it out

Ola

[TAFKAT]

Hey Ola,

Terry just beat me to it... :-)

NVS 450 for 4 x single card solution, I have done quite a few systems with dual NVS290's, work perfectly.

NVS 450 and / NVS 295 use Display Port, so be aware that the max DVI resolution is still 1920 x 1200 , but via display port its 2560 x 1600 , they also have OGL V3 as opposed to V2.1 of the NVS 290, but I am having no reported issue with the NVS290's atm, which are still my standard card for the DAW systems.

If you have a Display Port option on the LCD's, its pretty neat seeing Dual 30" - 2560 x 1600 units running off a card with only 256 MB of RAM , proves just how ridiculously bloated the domestic cards are.

[olamo]

Cool! My Matrox is going out for sale, I might even get a performance increase in Sequoia as well ;)

Thanks a lot guys :-)

[ROCKINROG]

Check Ebay. I bought both my NVS 450's for half the price of new.

[olamo]

Check Ebay. I bought both my NVS 450's for half the price of new.

Good idea. So when next payment arrives here..

[TAFKAT]

Hey Roger,

You run 2 x NVS 450's in the same system ?

Must look like a flight simulator in the control room... LOL

Out of interest are you running DVI or DisplayPort ?

Note to Ola , if you are running DVI ensure you get all the the DisplayPort to DVI adaptors when you purchase the card.

[TerryG]

I just bought a new NVS 290 on eBay for $28.99 with free shipping... the guy has 7 more.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Video-Card-NVIDIA-NVS-290-DMS-59-Dual-DVI-VGA-/270608812985?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards

[TAFKAT]

US Only, Ola is in Norway.... :-)

Great Deal tho for those in the US.., hmmm, I need to have a chat to my supplier... LOL

[olamo]

Yeah great deal, but as you say.. ;-)

ebay is great though, got new controllers to my kids Scalectrix classic ( used it myself as a kid from '75).
BTW will N5 benefit from the Nvidia Pure HD thing?

Cheers,
Ola

[TerryG]

Yeah great deal, but as you say.. ;-)

ebay is great though, got new controllers to my kids Scalectrix classic ( used it myself as a kid from '75).
BTW will N5 benefit from the Nvidia Pure HD thing?

Cheers,
Ola

From what I read at nVidia's site today, Pure HD only works with BluRay in the 8500/8600GT.
I'm running a 512MB 8600GT right now... and I'll be replacing it with the Quadro, at least to see if it's any better at 2D for Nuendo and the CAD/Photoshop stuff I do from time to time.

[olamo]

From what I read at nVidia's site today, Pure HD only works with BluRay in the 8500/8600GT. It's a 3D function anyway, right?
I'm running a 512MB 8600GT right now... and I'll be replacing it with the Quadro, at least to see if it's any better.
The main benefit to Quadro is 2D, CAD, etc...

right.. I think I read somewhere about the benefit of HD support on newer Graphic cards in conjunction with Nuendo, but I guess N5 it's primarily supported by OpenGL.
I just reinstalled Nuendo without the 5.01 update and video seems to run smoother on XP64 on my Macbook Pro. Hmm..

[TAFKAT]

Hey Ola,

Keep us up to date.. :-)

BTW.


You know .... Open GL is still on 1.2 or so in the Parhelia.
Development has spend weeks in "downgrading" the 2.x Open GL standard for the new Video Engine, so people with a Parhelia could at least see onscreen video.

If ever there was an idiotic , backward or dare I say Diagonalese waste of time and resources , this one takes the cake.

It may well explain why video performance is so unpredictable..

Read In Here (http://www.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=22539&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

[olamo]

Hey Ola,
If ever there was an idiotic , backward or dare I say Diagonalese waste of time and resources , this one takes the cake.
It may well explain why video performance is so unpredictable..

Hey Vin!
Wow, this is totally insane.. Updated the video engine to a new standard and then downgrading.. All for the parphelia to work, while their current workstation m-series seems to struggle with Nuendo.
BTW did some OpenGL tests and I can see the same stuttering behaviour, supporting the theory that the OpenGL driver is not up to par.

Take care,
Ola

[TAFKAT]

Hey Vin!
Wow, this is totally insane.. Updated the video engine to a new standard and then downgrading.. All for the parphelia to work, while their current workstation m-series seems to struggle with Nuendo.
BTW did some OpenGL tests and I can see the same stuttering behaviour, supporting the theory that the OpenGL driver is not up to par.

Take care,
Ola

Yeh, its seems totally arse about to me.

The NVS 290's that I use are at OpenGL 2.1 , but seem to be working well so that maybe the ticket as the Matrox Cards are stuck at 2.0

I also see that our knowledgeable friend over at N.com is recommending the Matrox 3 head card above yours the M9138, which has identical specs to your in regards to OpenGL.

I really have to wonder sometimes.. :-(

[olamo]

Vin,
Just to be shure, do you use the 290's in W7 x64?
regarding the OpenGL version it might be a significant difference between 2.0 and 2.1, but it might as well be Matrox driver implementation that is somewhat faulty, don't know.. Funny though, I have never used Matrox cards in any computer before. It seemed the only multiscreen solution available here at a reasonable cost, but I should have asked you first ;-)

Cheers
Ola

[TAFKAT]

Hey Ola,

Yes I use the NVS 290's on Win7 x64 , work very well.

Re Matrox, I used them for years , G400, G450, G550 , even the P650 were all great for their time , but the drivers over the years have fallen behind the curve. I moved to Nvidia Quadra cards about 4-5 years ago and have never looked back.

I still have a brand new unused P650 with Triple head mod sitting on the shelf , if anyone is interested, might make a good door stop... LOL

[olamo]

Finally got the Quatro 450 card and the video performance in N5 is slightly improved..
Still underwhelming compared to the competitors here: a bonus is that video performance in Sequoia is even better - I run ProRes at full quality on the 24' screen while having the video range vindow open at the same time ( works as Edit mode in Nuendo). Amazing performance from a program that is not even really marketed towards video post pro.

I know that Nuendo 5 use other frame work /libraries, but what is the deal?? How can the very same computer run so extremely well with video in Sequoia and yet so underwhelming in N5?

I downgraded from 5.01 to 5.0 on my laptop and noticed quite a difference, and will do that on my studio computer as well to see if the video performance improves...

Cheers,
Ola

[Animus]

Well it's obviously working as designed as they will tell you, as if working not as good as the competition is something to brag about.

It's hilarious though. They tell use to upgrade the OS and computer over that Peak file memory issue but then here they want to save people with old video cards at the cost of modernizing Nuendo..

[TAFKAT]

Finally got the Quatro 450 card and the video performance in N5 is slightly improved..
Still underwhelming compared to the competitors here: a bonus is that video performance in Sequoia is even better - I run ProRes at full quality on the 24' screen while having the video range vindow open at the same time ( works as Edit mode in Nuendo). Amazing performance from a program that is not even really marketed towards video post pro.

Hey Ola,

I would still seriously considering dumping the the Matrox card , heres an idea, dump it on Fredo's doorstep, he still considers them a viable option !!


I know that Nuendo 5 use other frame work /libraries, but what is the deal?? How can the very same computer run so extremely well with video in Sequoia and yet so underwhelming in N5?

That is the question that needs to be answered. Despite Steinberg putting huge resources into rewriting and streamlining the video engine, there are still issues being reported across both Windows and OSX - so much for the native QT on OSX being an advantage.

Maybe they should have employed the video engine coder at Magix, he seems to have a better grasp , or shock..., maybe had a closer look at how the competition seem to always come up with a better solution and use the same approach.


I downgraded from 5.01 to 5.0 on my laptop and noticed quite a difference, and will do that on my studio computer as well to see if the video performance improves...Keep us up to date.

They are obviously moving some dots around, but of course there will never be a single word of acknowledgement from the reps at Ostriches.com. If you haven't already , post the qualm over there and see what kind of a response you get from the usual suspects, it will be entertaining at least.. :-)

[olamo]

Hey Vin!

Yeah, what is this Ostriches loyalty to Matrox cards? Thanks for chiming in.. I have to do some more research in terms of different codecs/formats, and which ones works best with Nuendo, haven't given up yet. Although it is very annoying of course. Will update you with my findings. BTW is there a generic test I could run to check the performance of my computer? I mean other than the Latency checker? I get ok results with this one, mostly +-13 on idle use.

Take care