True stereo convolution reverb and Konakt issues...

[Bman]

As many of you know Peter Roos has released a donationware Bricasti M7 IR library (great quality too, thanks Peter). He was asked a question by a member of vi-control regarding whether or not it was possible to tell whether a verb is working in true stereo or not? His answer was as follows:


"Yes, pan an input signal hard left or right.

In True Stereo you should get a nice and correct reverb, that also articulates the source's position." (underlining is mine)

"In correct mono-to-stereo you should hear a stereo reverb, but no hint of the source's location. Here you are using a single stereo file with IR info.

In incorrect mono-to-stereo, that is: the input signal is not summed to mono, you will here the reverb only in the same channel as the source. This is a very commonly used, but incorrect routing."


After reading this comment from Peter I realised that all this time I was not getting the benefit of true stereo impulses, while thinking that I was. Here's why...

I use Kontakt and make extensive use of Kontakt banks. To apply reverb I route signals from banks or individual instruments within a bank to a Kontakt Aux bus which appears in in my host as a stereo pair. I then set up a prefader send from this stereo pair (which takes its input from the Kontakt Aux channel) within my host (Cubase) to my true stereo reverb, and then drag the volume fader to the bottom so as not to hear any dry signal. All good.

However I discovered that panning my Kontakt instrument as normal using CC10 means my true stereo reverb acts (and sounds functionally) as a mono to stereo reverb. However, if I insert a stereo modeller effect within Kontakt and pan from there everything works as it should. I have no idea why, and if anyone can enlighten me I'd be interested. If you use Kontakt banks you can test it yourself by listening only to the wet/reverb signal and panning your instrument using Peters suggestions above. Note that this only seems to occur (at least for me) with banks not with individually loaded instruments on their own channels. Now I have to replace all my pan settings with those using a Kontakt stereo modeller insert :icon_redface:. I'm using Reverberate with true stereo responses. ymmv

I hope this helps someone else

Brett

[Bman]

Correction...

Using Bank level Aux sends does result in a True stereo result, but dialing in Aux send reverb at the individual instrument level within a bank (using Gainer sendFX and setting the return to one of the global Aux sends) does not, regardless of whether you use pan at the bank level or instrument level.

[paulwr]

Depending on what you have organized in the bank, that could suck. But usually, I'll have instruments all loaded in a bank that have the same mic position, or same ambience, so not so much an issue. Interesting to know, thanks.

I hadn't checked out the free M7 impulses. I tried them out and they were sounding good until I pitted them against an algorithmic reverb, in this case IK's CSR. Damn good reverb for the price. Still, would be great to be using several Bricasti units........ maybe later. A bit rich for the budget at the moment.

-Paul

[Bman]

Depending on what you have organized in the bank, that could suck. But usually, I'll have instruments all loaded in a bank that have the same mic position, or same ambience, so not so much an issue. Interesting to know, thanks.

I hadn't checked out the free M7 impulses. I tried them out and they were sounding good until I pitted them against an algorithmic reverb, in this case IK's CSR. Damn good reverb for the price. Still, would be great to be using several Bricasti units........ maybe later. A bit rich for the budget at the moment.

-Paul

Yes, mostly I'm with you and I have instruments with similar ambiences in a bank, but doing film work occasionally I'll switch between a drier and wetter version of the same instrument for different cues and rather than automate the aux faders in Kontakt I just load up another copy of the same instrument in the bank. It doesn't use any more RAM. I try to minimise automation or uncommon cc messages as it's too had to keep on top of across a 2 hour project.

As for the reverb, I demoed Aether the other day - very impressive. The algo verbs are (when properly implemented) the best but boy do you take a cpu hit for it. My compromise was Reverberate which has modulation options. A very subtle touch of chorus or pan seems to bring the tail to life. CPU hit is close to negligible and price is dirt cheap. Was a good compromise for me (although when funds allow I think I'll purchase Aether - a great convo and great algo plug is the best of both worlds)

Brett