Question for those using satellite systems for VI's ?

[TAFKAT]

Hey Guys,

Quick question for those of you using satellite systems running multitimbral VI's, i.e Kontakt/PLAY and or/hosts like Vstack/Bidule/VE/VE Pro.

I am wanting to get clarification of how the Standalone Instruments are load balancing/multithreading across the multicore systems.

When running as a plugin within a DAW or Host application, the threading is arbitrated by the application itself, so I am interested to know if the standalone version are actually capable of multithreading as well.

Test would be easy enough, load up a multi part template in Kontact/PLAY standalone and see if it is load balancing in TM across multiple cores.

:009:

[paulwr]

I've switched to using multiple instances of Kontakt and/or Play within Plogue Bidule in all the slaves. I checked the task manager (W7 x64 a Q6600 and a few old P4 dual cores) but I don't see anywhere in the task manager where independent core reporting is. Thread counts yes, not per cpu. Even in the resource monitor / CPU window. What am I missing here?

-Paul

[TAFKAT]

Hey Paul,

Load up a session and see whether the load is balancing across the TM core readout , btw with Bidule the threading is arbitrated by the app not the plugs.

If you have a standalone version of Kontakt/PLAY installed, can you just do a quick test for me, load up a session template in the standalone and let me know how its load balancing across the cores.

A screen shot would be great if you can be bothered.

Thanks Mate.

[TAFKAT]

Bump.. :wink:

Hey Paul, any luck ?

LEX, Dedric , Thonex, all of you guys have satellite systems running, can any of you take a few minutes and do a quick run up on Kontakt standalone loading up a multipart setup on one of the multicore systems and give me some feedback please.

:009:

[paulwr]

I'm doing some work tonight, I'll check it. -Paul

[paulwr]

This is a TM shot while running Bidule with Play and Kontakt in it. Let me know if you need Kontakt & Play done separately.

[TAFKAT]

This is a TM shot while running Bidule with Play and Kontakt in it. Let me know if you need Kontakt & Play done separately.

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the time and energy..,

Thats showing that Bidules is load balancing well , but what is of greater interest to me is whether VSTi's in standalone are multi threaded and allow load balancing across multiple cores when running multiple parts , so it would be great if you can run both Kontakt and PLAY standalone up for me if possible.

:009:

[kdm]

Vin - I'll test this with Kontakt and Play Monday or Tuesday.

[OpenMind]

Vin, I use FX Teleport to run VSTi on a second (dual-core) PC when there's no more CPU-power or RAM available on my main (quad-core) PC. Is that what you mean by a satellite system? (I call it slave...)

If so, I could test EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Platinum XP, RA, Boesendorfer or Symphonic Choirs (All Kompakt)... or NI Elektric Piano (Kontakt based) and Kontakt Players 2,3 and 4

[TAFKAT]

Hey O,

That would be cool, its a little different to what I was after, but interesting none the less, thanks Mate.. :-)

FXT uses a wrapper on the host machine so that would be interesting to see how that is actually load balancing the plugins themselves.

Just load up any one of the Kompakt/Kontakt based VI's with multiple parts and see how its balancing the load across the cores in TM.

[OpenMind]

Ok... I gave it a try. I hope it's useable.

Loaded EWQL Brass (Kompakt) in FX-Teleport.

Instrument 1 + 2 = 4 trumpets / sustain
Instrument 3 + 4 = 4 trombones / sustain

Each instrument is routed to a seperate VSTi stereo-output and return to Cubase as VSTi audio-channel 1 - 4
In Cubase I created 4 MIDI tracks with a pulsating 16th 3-note chord in 4 different octaves and with a little time-shift.
Each MIDI track is routed to an part in he VSTi.

So... 4 MIDI-tracks from Cubase to FXT on the 2nd PC, and 4 stereo audio-tracks from FXT back to Cubase.

Results (Task Manager from Dutch XP on FXT-server)
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o12/OpenMind-NL/FXTCPU-load1.jpg?t=1264430157


Extra: Result from ZiNi (software that came with Zalman HD160XT case)
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o12/OpenMind-NL/FXTCPU-load2.jpg?t=1264430787
Remark: Memory is not 2048MB but 4096MB (3.00 GB available to XP32)

[paulwr]

Here area few more:
Kontakt standalone in a P4 2core slave
Play standalone in the DAW slongside Cubase 5
Kontakt standalone in the DAW alongside Cubase 5

The scaling looks pretty even in all instances. I was pleasantly surprised. The efficiency of the scaling becomes a factor next, I'd guess. All your in depth testing of the benchmarks do that pretty well.
Things are getting better out there in digital audio land, to be sure.

-Paul

[TAFKAT]

Thanks for the time and energy guys,

Paul,

Very interesting and as I had hoped the VI's in standalone mode are actually multithreaded , whereas when running as a plugin the multithreading will be controlled via the DAW / Host application.

@O,

Re the FXT results , that interesting as well as the process of wrapping is allowing them to run multithreaded , altho not as evenly by the look.

If you guys get some time, can you load the VI's up with more parts /polyphony to get a higher overhead reading, it will be interesting if the load balancing is sustained evenly.


:009:

[OpenMind]

Re the FXT results , that interesting as well as the process of wrapping is allowing them to run multithreaded , altho not as evenly by the look.

If you guys get some time, can you load the VI's up with more parts /polyphony to get a higher overhead reading, it will be interesting if the load balancing is sustained evenly.

I never really looked at the CPU-load before, so I was a little surprised too.
When FXT is not running, each core-load is somewhere between 0 and 1 percent.
I concluded that the 20 percent load may be linked to the overall performance of FXT itself and the 33 percent core could be the performance of the EWQLSO VSTi.

I guess there might be more accurate answers when I do a test where all 8 parts are used... and another test with a few extra VSTi... and a test with 1 stereo mix-return... and a test with a seperate stereo-return for each part. More or less audio channels would mainly increase the cpu-load for FXT itself I guess. If this has an effect on only one core, then we can assume that FXT is not really multicore compatible. In that case, the other core would vary depending on the number of used parts and number of VSTii.... I guess... :eusa_think: :D

[Vinark]

I seem to remember from the developers mouth, that independent of the plugin itself (which can also be multithreaded like Kontakt4) FXT opens every vst(i) in one thread.

[paulwr]

If you guys get some time, can you load the VI's up with more parts /polyphony to get a higher overhead reading, it will be interesting if the load balancing is sustained evenly.

:009:

I KNEW you'd ask that! May be a couple days...... ok to add effects that are a part of Kontakt or Play? That shoots up the resource appetite very quickly and easily without the possibility of hitting HD performance wall.

-Paul

[OpenMind]

I seem to remember from the developers mouth, that independent of the plugin itself (which can also be multithreaded like Kontakt4) FXT opens every vst(i) in one thread.
That seems to be right...

New test with FX Teleport CPU-load.

1 instance of EWQLSO Strings
1 instance of EWQLSO Brass
For each VSTi: ... All 8 parts loaded with different patches ... All 8 stereo outputs active
In Cubase: 16 MIDI tracks with in each track pulsating 16th 3-note chords alternating between 2 octaves. Quantize randomized by 8 ticks

So... 16 MIDI tracks from Cubase to FXT and 16 stereo audio channels from FXT back to Cubase
Core-load seems to be equal... both around 60% :icon_cool:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o12/OpenMind-NL/FXTCPU-load3.jpg

[TAFKAT]

Hey Paul,

When ever you get some time will be fine.

You can add effects if you want, but what I am really inteested in seeing is a multipart/instrument config excatly as OpenMind has done with the FXT VI's , but with the standalone versions of the plugs.

@ OpenMind,

Thank you Mate, exactly what I was after , revealing and and very interesting.

FXT wrapped plugs multitimral VI's - multithread / load balance when running independent of a DAW/Host App.

[TAFKAT]

Hey Paul,

When ever you get some time will be fine.

You can add effects if you want, but what I am really interested in seeing is a multipart/instrument config exactly as OpenMind has done with the FXT VI's , but with the standalone versions of the VI's.

@ OpenMind,

Thank you Mate, exactly what I was after , revealing and and very interesting.

FXT wrapped multitimral VI's - multithread / load balance when running independent of a DAW/Host App.

:009:

[paulwr]

Play being pressed hard with over 300 voices on DAW. I accidentally overwrote the pix from a P4 DualCore slave with Kontakt pushed about the same. For your info, it was very even usage of each core.
Play, if the voice count got too high, would crash. So this is about it.

-Paul

[TAFKAT]

Hey Paul,

Quick question , is that standalone , looks like its running within Cubase as a VSTi ?

[paulwr]

Hey Paul,

Quick question , is that standalone , looks like its running within Cubase as a VSTi ?

Yes, it is standalone. But in the DAW along side Cubase 5.

[TAFKAT]

Vin - I'll test this with Kontakt and Play Monday or Tuesday.

Hey Dedric,

I missed you post earlier in the mix.., thanks Mate, would love your input on this as well.. :D

[kdm]

Hey Dedric,

I missed you post earlier in the mix.., thanks Mate, would love your input on this as well.. :D

Hey Vin - sorry for the long delay - it's been a really rough couple of weeks. In the middle of a score at the moment - I'll test Play and Kontakt standalone on a dual and a quad - probably Wednesday as it looks now.

[TAFKAT]

No problem, when ever you get a few minutes.

Thanks Mate..