New Mac Pros...

[LEX]

I tell you.

Their designs are REALLY impressive.

LEX

[TAFKAT]

What new MAC Pro's ?

[LEX]

What ever the latest design is.

Internally, they are really well put together. Just the ability to pull out the RAM rack, the pci card holder, the way you can put 4 HD's in, in about 2 minutes without any cables (the power and SATA are built right into the MOBO).

The downside as I'm experiencing. The OS problems. This is for a PT HD system, but the new Mac Pro's come with 10.6 installed and PT doesn't work well with 10.6

So it is a whole, "try to get 10.5 installed".

So much for "out of the box experience". It still doesn't work yet.

LEX

iPoop Fruit

[TAFKAT]

Oh Right,

Yeh the design and engineering level is great, always has been, pity the quality of some of the components and architectural implementation is not up to the same standard ... :eusa_whistle:

RE PTHD on 10.6.x , hmmm, a little bird tells me you may have something to play with shortly... :wink:

[nikki-k]

Naughty, naughty TAFKAT! ;) LOL!!!

I loved my Mac Pro from a build standpoint. LOVED how the hard drives just had to have 4 screws on rails, slide in, done. Cableless awesomeness! RAM trays definitely nice. Dealing with Genius Bar self-righteous douchebaggery? Inability to swap in a 64-bit EFI for the 32-bit one? Swap just the motherboard? Not so much.. lol... But, for an install in a steady working studio, would probably be my first choice.

[Pete Leoni]

Amazing to me that a (.point) upgrade to the OS can render an entire piece of hardware inoperable!

[TAFKAT]

Naughty, naughty TAFKAT! ;) LOL!!! .

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.... :eusa_whistle:

Re the Ram Risers on the MAC's, hmm, I am not as warm and fuzzy about them, the only reason they are necessary is because Apple use proprietary OEM motherboards that are not the correct EATX size, so they need to cram all of the bits into a more confined space , they also limit the amount of RAM slots available. On the surface its handy, but at a technical level, its actually detrimental IMO.

BTW: I think some of the Dell Workstations utilise the same system as well.

I do like the engineering level and design of the systems tho, hard not to, I wish some OEM would let me loose with some R & D cash to do some custom design work.. :wink:

[MattiasNYC]

Actually, I've gotta say that even though their current crop of towers are well designed their earlier ones were crap compared to common PC cases. Seriously.

Get some of the earlier models and look at how HD's were mounted, or optical drives. It was a total pain in the ass just to swap them. And sometimes you'd have to forget about switching an optical to a different model, because the case restrictions were so strict. And maxxing out the towers capacity? Forget about it. A nasty nest of ugly wiring, over-heating etc.

While they're great now, I really think they were way behind at one point....

just my .02....

[LEX]

I do like the engineering level and design of the systems tho, hard not to, I wish some OEM would let me loose with some R & D cash to do some custom design work.. :wink:

Yes. Go for it!

LEX

[kdm]

While they're great now, I really think they were way behind at one point....

just my .02....

I'm still not convinced Apple uses much more than basement level parts behind the nice looking cases, including the motherboard (lower level of the dual socket/server boards at least). Too many bad experiences and reports of returns/repairs from every Mac user I know to give them credit for more than a fancy paint job and effective marketing tactics to cover up the high failure rates.

[ROCKINROG]

......YEP....A whole lot of smoke and mirrors. :icon_rolleyes:

[TAFKAT]

I'm still not convinced Apple uses much more than basement level parts behind the nice looking cases, including the motherboard (lower level of the dual socket/server boards at least). Too many bad experiences and reports of returns/repairs from every Mac user I know to give them credit for more than a fancy paint job and effective marketing tactics to cover up the high failure rates.

LOL, I said the exact thing a little more subtly earlier... :wink:

[kdm]

LOL, I said the exact thing a little more subtly earlier... :wink:

I guess my subtlety has taken a nosedive lately. I'm sure the iFruit users can handle a little reality check.... or not....doesn't matter to me either way. :wink:

They do have a nice internal design, as long as you don't actually have to move anything. Wonder if the new Mac Pros will boot from a system drive with a cable longer than 2" now.... didn't in the G4 models with IDE. lol

[LEX]

How's this for wonderful.

It comes preloaded with 10.6.

I downloaded the 10.6.2 combo updater.

It won't install. So I can't even use the 8.03 PTHD update that came out today.

LOL!

LEX

[nikki-k]

Wow.. was just about to post about the release (http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=261544). That sucks that the 10.6.2 update won't work. 10.6 should work tho... as should 10.5. Not saying how I know...

[LEX]

10.5 retail installer would not install on the latest Snow Leopard Mac Pro.

I had to get a PT OS 10.5.8 clone for it to work. I don't know if 10.5.6 retail installer will work either.

While 8.03 is fresh and out in the wild, I feel more comfortable with 10.5.8 than 10.6.2.

OS 10.6 was preinstalled. Trying to up to to 10.6.2 with the update combo would not allow me to install onto the 10.6 HD.

I downloaded 10.6.1 update (only 70 megs thankfully) and it installed. I rebooted and was able to install 10.6.2.

So much for out of the box.

All in all with the cloning and 10.6, it took me 4 hours to get the Mac going with PT 8.

LEX

[MattiasNYC]

I'm still not convinced Apple uses much more than basement level parts behind the nice looking cases, including the motherboard (lower level of the dual socket/server boards at least). Too many bad experiences and reports of returns/repairs from every Mac user I know to give them credit for more than a fancy paint job and effective marketing tactics to cover up the high failure rates.

Sorry for pushing this in the Mac vs. PC direction, but I completely agree with you.

I think what did it for me was when Apple declared that their Macs were the first personal computers to do XGflops or whatever. They called it the worlds first personal supercomputer. All the Mac fans ate it up and boasted about it. Of course they were oblivious to the fact that AMD had reach that exact same point a year earlier.... for less money... it's just that those PC's weren't called personal computers, but "workstations".....

And that's what it's about for a lot of what Apple really is: Marketing and image.

Granted, their UI is nice. But their hardware is most definitely not the best out there.....

But I'm preaching to the choir I suspect...

[paulwr]

I'd love to have a pro tools setup to feed all my slaves to, and do mixing/mastering there. Either mac or pc version, but probably mac. But, I don't get the native format I want for the plugs that I want to use, and I don't feel like buying a bunch of new ones for twice the price as what I already have. Guess this isn't exactly a mac comment, more pro tools. Truth is I loved using my old mac with pro tools II so many years ago. When the software/hardware is right for me to do it, I will. Til then, I'll just stick with the pc's and go the extra mile to keep them configured properly.

-Paul

[Pete Leoni]

Since Mac are Intel PC's that can run Osx or Win, and Since PC's are Intel machines that can run Win or Osx, I wonder what all the fuss is about. It's dead easy to build a PC that boots either these days, they are largely the same thing, except for the easily defeat-able Osx "dongle" kludged onto the those fine Intel/PC mobos in the Apple machines.

[TerryG]

Since Mac are Intel PC's that can run Osx or Win, and Since PC's are Intel machines that can run Win or Osx, I wonder what all the fuss is about. It's dead easy to build a PC that boots either these days, they are largely the same thing, except for the easily defeat-able Osx "dongle" kludged onto the those fine Intel/PC mobos in the Apple machines.

Two words: Core Audio...

I'd like to have a Mac OS loaded for a day... to do some graphics conversions.

[TAFKAT]

So I can't even use the 8.03 PTHD update that came out today.

PTHD 8.03 with SL support came out today.. ?

So whadda ya know, call me Nostraldamas... :wink:

[TAFKAT]

Since Mac are Intel PC's that can run Osx or Win, and Since PC's are Intel machines that can run Win or Osx, I wonder what all the fuss is about.

Hey Pete,

I'll give you a few pointers to chew over , C Halt states and EIST, all that can be easily controlled and correctly arbitrated on a BIOS, but is literally crippled on EFI implementations been used by our fruity friends , that and OSX's inability to arbitrate the EIST in software correctly as well, whereas Windows does have far better control in that regard.



It's dead easy to build a PC that boots either these days, they are largely the same thing, except for the easily defeat-able Osx "dongle" kludged onto the those fine Intel/PC mobos in the Apple machines.

Dead easy maybe a little over simplified, its doable but the parameters are thinning as the hardware changes , and the goal post also keep getting moved on every .1 update by Saint Steve.

We do have to walk a very fine and careful line here, as some black skivvy spooks read in here I suspect.. :eusa_whistle:

[Pete Leoni]

Two words: Core Audio...

I'd like to have a Mac OS loaded for a day... to do some graphics conversions.

Wiki has some interesting step by steps