Help with tempo changes...

[colony nofi]

Hey all...
I've always struggled a little with the tempo track, and making changes using warp mode etc... end up getting myself into big messes.

Just wondering what other people do in a couple of situations.

So, I like my video to start at 01:01:30.00 Its a habit I won't break quickly. (often omf's I get have this start time too...)
I also need to start the music at least 0.5 seconds in.

Say I want that to be beat one. What is the easiest way to do this, knowing that I want to be able to try out many different tempos, and quickly audition the click track starting at the head of the movie. ie - keep 01:01:30:13 (I'm in 25fps land) as beat 1 of bar 1 no matter what.

Further, I'd actually like 01:01:30.13 to be beat 1 of bar 5, and have bar 1 be the point where the tempo actually changes.

Is there a way of doing this nice and quickly? I end up doing it a very round about way... starting with NO tempo changes on the tempo map, just gradually changing the tempo, and moving the pics around so that the 13th frame just happens to hit a beat "1"... and once I have the tempo, I lock the pics back to 01:01:30.13, and then make changes to the tempo map (around 01:01:00.00) so beat 1 happens to line up at the point I want it to. Very arse about face, totally counter intuitive, and probably a really long way around. Suggestions?

I'm going to go read manuals again. I can't believe I've got away with my archaic methods for so long.

B.

[kdm]

I'm not sure I follow what you want to do with bar 1 vs. bar 5 and whether you need tempo flexible before frame 13, or only from there on out, but here is how I would approach this if the latter is the case:

1 - setup the project start for 01:01:00:00
2 - set the bars/beats ruler to Time Linear
3 - set a bar offset to give some room before bar 1 (which you can later warp a few bars to give a count-in to bar 1 at tempo if needed)
4 - use warp mode to set the hardlocked tempo start point for bar 1 and then again for 5 (assuming bar 5 always starts at the same timecode?)
5 - then if you warp tempo after bar 5 beat 1 (frame 13?) you should be able to audition the cue at different tempi.

If your video starts at your first tempo lock point, and you have another tempo point at frame 13, you should be able to warp everything after that without losing that frame sync point. This all assumes I'm following your goal, which I may not.

[colony nofi]

I confuse myself at times too - so I'm not surprised if my ramblings were unclear.
I'll try follow your guide, see if it works for me, and then get back to you - thanks!
(Busily reading the manual again on time warp...)
Cheers! B.

[colony nofi]

Again - thanks for that. Its kinda working for me, kinda not.

What I'm trying to do is LOCK bar 5 to 01:01:30.13, so it won't move, and try out different tempo changes (which would change at bar 1, which is a movable point in time.)

guess I could just use bar 1 @ 01:01:30.13, and use "count in" - its just that sometimes its easier to use audio cues that can occur before that point in the project, so I like having the tempo constant prior to the start of the music. Is that any clearer?

So, following what you wrote,
1. Setup project start for 01:01:00:00. Done.
2. Set bars / beats to time linear. Done. Does this do anything other than change the display? Or does it change the behavior later of time wapr?
3. Set a bar offset (the only place I knew where to do that was in the project setup dialog) and I set it to around 10 bars...
4. This is where I fall over. So right now, I have no tempo data at all. I can enter warp mode, and move bar 5 to 1:01:30:13, and the tempo adjusts (over the entire project) to make that work. Cool. Then, I can add another point at bar 1 at this same tempo.
But what do I do to change the tempo to another amount? If I change it now to 100bpm at bar 5, its no longer at 01:01:30:13... Even if I select the point at bar 1 and bar 5, i can't seem to do anything that works.

I'm wondering if I should just avoid all this heartache, and start at bar 1, and use midi count in. I do love using little audio "pips" sometimes though, and starting recording acoustic instruments a few bars before the actual start, just in case the beginning note starts early / someone does something special that I later want to use (and its in tempo then...) etc. Get what I mean?

Cheers! Brendan.

[colony nofi]

I think what I'm trying to do is easier explained by putting it another way.

I'm writing a new cue.

The whole cue needs to be at a constant tempo. It doesn't matter where bar 1 of the cue is in the time line. But bar 5 must hit 01:01:30:13 exactly.

How does one achieve this, and audition different tempos for the whole cue?

Cheers, B.

[kdm]

2. Set bars / beats to time linear. Done. Does this do anything other than change the display? Or does it change the behavior later of time wapr?

It keeps your timecode and bars/beats rulers (I usually have both setup) in sync when you alter tempo - or at least your first locked anchor tempo stays at the same TC. If the bars/beats ruler is in musical mode, everytime you exit warp, timing will be way off (I kind of think this is a bug)



4. This is where I fall over. So right now, I have no tempo data at all. I can enter warp mode, and move bar 5 to 1:01:30:13, and the tempo adjusts (over the entire project) to make that work. Cool. Then, I can add another point at bar 1 at this same tempo.
But what do I do to change the tempo to another amount? If I change it now to 100bpm at bar 5, its no longer at 01:01:30:13... Even if I select the point at bar 1 and bar 5, i can't seem to do anything that works.


If you want to change both bar 1 and bar 5 tempi to match, and both are locked, bar 5 won't be at the same tc - no way around that.

But, if you let bar 1 float, and just lock bar 5, then you can grab bar 6 (or anything after it) and adjust bar 5 on as needed, then go back to bar 1 and drag it around to match that tempo and use either a musical mode audio click track, or midi click. It is a two step process to try new tempi, but it's the only way I can think of that will keep bar 5 at frame 13.

Once you lock more than one, there isn't an easy way to adjust everything without changing the TC references as well, but if you only have one point locked, it should work as intended, as long as you use warp with "musical events follow".

[colony nofi]

Cheers!
I think I just have some crazy work methods sometimes.
I might have to write some sort of macro to help me on this one... we'll see. In my head I think I can do this with quickeys maybe.

I'm doing the standard simple bar 1 @ my start point, and not caring about precount tempo for now - am in midi mockup land anyway today.

Of course, I've already hit a hurdle in needing to do exactly what I described in post 5 - where a sync point needs to occur, but i need the tempo before it to be constant for a set number of bars. Ah, the fun that is nuendo tempo tracks...

Cheers. I have other midi stuff doing my head in today too... I'll get to that soon.

Brendan.