N4 better than N3 - Further discussion

[psvennevig]

Let's face it. N4 is in fact better at most than N3. Some plugins can ruin the N4 experience however.
Just like PT 8 users now must check every plugin version they use...

Pål

[LEX]

Let's face it. N4 is in fact better at most than N3. Some plugins can ruin the N4 experience however.
Just like PT 8 users now must check every plugin version they use...

Pål

Sure, as long as you don't work in 29.97, use video or solo/mute.

Most the plugins in PT8 work, BTW. Where in SEQ4, it is kind of a guessing game.

LEX

[psvennevig]

He he, I knew it...

Isn't the same 29.97 problem there in N3?
Otherwise I like video better in N4 than N3.

Solo / mute bug is a two headed beast.
1.
Solo/ mute automation problem. This is wicked, and if run into problematic.
(Introduced in N4)
2.
Solo /mute problems with folders and groups etc. (depended on pref. settings)
Have been there since early N3. So not a new bug, and of course should've been fixed years ago. But in my book not a day to day problem.

I always use solo defeat for aux returns etc. And never use solo/mute functions of folder tracks.
Since I mostly work on an ID controller or a Euphonix MC I do not see the group related solo/mute problem either.
So for me N4 is much better than N3.

Here's hoping N5 will be better for everyone.

Best regards,
Pål Svennevig

[Thonex]

Isn't the same 29.97 problem there in N3?


I'm still in N3 and have no 29.97 issues... I work almost exclusively in 29.97 drop and non drop... without issues.




I always use solo defeat for aux returns etc. And never use solo/mute functions of folder tracks.

I Solo defeat all VSTIs and Groups too... except those using external analog inserts, However, I do use solo/ mute folders all the time. This would be a big deal for me in N4... if that is indeed the problem.

So far in N3.. it's ok.

Cheers,

T

[LEX]

I solo defeat everything in N3 as well, and have no issues with 29.97 video truncating like in N4.
Also, isn't he pulldown/up video option completely missing in Nuendo 4?
http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=17397
Kind of a major oversite.

Again, another thing that has to be rendered using 3rd party software.

Here is a quick solo example problem in N4. Very easy to test.

Does not happen in N3.


So let's say you have 4 mono LR tracks and 4 mono LR return record tracks.

Source output to Eventide, return input from Eventide.

Set source tracks for solo.
Set return tracks for Solo Def, ready to record.

Record. :)

Now, manually unsolo source 1-2, and un solo def record 1-2 and mute.

Set source 3-4 in solo and set record for def on 3-4, and set to monitor.

No input.

Unsolo all channels. Resolo channels. Now you have input.


The further into routing you get between different channels and such, the worse it gets.

Unfortunately, this 2 are pretty major and effect alot of workflow.
No simple workarounds with these, so N3 gets the hat.

LEX

[Roger Kint]

Moving discussion from Thonex's

Did SB ever fix the "just before the downbeat" midi record issue?
Thread.

Roger.

[psvennevig]

pull up/down settings in N4 have been moved to the synchronization dialog.

So it still works. But harder to find.

Regarding your solo test. I fully believe U. But have you checked that prefs. regarding solo etc. is set the same in N3 and N4?
And N3 prefs. do not work like they should imported into N4.

Other than that, yes there is solo/mute problems. Some of them are several years old. Of course it should be fixed.

I still favor N4 over N3. It is just my opinion.

/P

[Thonex]

I still favor N4 over N3. It is just my opinion.

/P

Hi Pål ,


How many midi channels does your template have?

T

[Daryl]

N4, less stable.
N4 uses more CPU.
N4 less efficient with the ASIO Performance meter, so easier to get an overload.
Did I mention N4 less stable?

D

[psvennevig]

N4, less stable.
N4 uses more CPU.
N4 less efficient with the ASIO Performance meter, so easier to get an overload.
Did I mention N4 less stable?

D

I strongly disagree.
In my setups (and other studios I work for) N4 is more stable than N3.
It is also on those systems more efficient. But I think this is due to the bug-fix with ASIO serialization problems with many ASIO i/o. And I run many ASIO i/o.
I can run more tracks and plugins during 96 khz tracking sessions in N4 than N3. (This might also be because of the multi asio i/o fix in N4).

I have on the other hand seen N4 studios which without a doubt have more problems with N4 than they did with N3. Some I have managed to help, some not. It is usually plugins.
Its a fact N4, is WAY more picky when it comes to plugs than N3 was.

P

[psvennevig]

Hi Pål ,


How many midi channels does your template have?

T

he he, not much.

My standard 96khz music template have 6 midi tracks.
My usual music projects never end at more than 40 midi tracks.
Some post prod sound design might end at more midi tracks. (very seldom)

As you see, and probably knew, I'm not a MIDI man..

/P

[Thonex]

he he, not much.

My standard 96khz music template have 6 midi tracks.
My usual music projects never end at more than 40 midi tracks.
Some post prod sound design might end at more midi tracks. (very seldom)

As you see, and probably knew, I'm not a MIDI man..

/P

That is the difference then.

I can't tell you how many discussion I've had with people who though I was crazy... but it turns out they don't use many midi tracks. Midi is a big factor in stability with Nuendo...

I know this .. and so I'm very reluctant to go to N4 unless i "have" to...and 64 bit would be good enough a reason.

T

[LEX]

I strongly disagree.
In my setups (and other studios I work for) N4 is more stable than N3.
It is also on those systems more efficient. But I think this is due to the bug-fix with ASIO serialization problems with many ASIO i/o. And I run many ASIO i/o.
I can run more tracks and plugins during 96 khz tracking sessions in N4 than N3. (This might also be because of the multi asio i/o fix in N4).

I have on the other hand seen N4 studios which without a doubt have more problems with N4 than they did with N3. Some I have managed to help, some not. It is usually plugins.
Its a fact N4, is WAY more picky when it comes to plugs than N3 was.

P
If it is plugin based, it must be because of the new VST3 spec and how N4 deals with VST2.4 plugins.

Since there is no list, or VST2.4 bridge in SEQ4, it doesn't garner alot of confidence for the users.

I remember the long, long thread with the plugin developers going crazy over the whole new VST3 change, and how dramatically changed.
There were some plugin vendors who stated out loud that they were not going to rewrite their plugins for VST3 as it was a complete rewrite, and now they were going to have to continue their VST2.4 support.

Unlike digidesign, the VST3 SDK was available 1.5 years after the fact.
And even with PT8, 97 percent of the plugins still work.
So it isn't picky like SEQ4, and a few revisions to the 3 percent isn't like SEQ4 at all.

There is alot to be said the way SB handled DirectX and VST3, and it isn't a positive.

LEX

[LEX]

That is the difference then.

I can't tell you how many discussion I've had with people who though I was crazy... but it turns out they don't use many midi tracks. Midi is a big factor in stability with Nuendo...

I know this .. and so I'm very reluctant to go to N4 unless i "have" to...and 64 bit would be good enough a reason.

T

Yep, which is why Daryl stated N4 was less stable.

So now it comes down to this. Is Nuendo/Cubase for audio? or for midi?
Seems more like the audio side works better, but the midi has been all but lost.
Is this a sign of times to come in the future?

If the once great midi program goes to hell, then what?

LEX

[Thonex]

Yep, which is why Daryl stated N4 was less stable.

So now it comes down to this. Is Nuendo/Cubase for audio? or for midi?
Seems more like the audio side works better, but the midi has been all but lost.
Is this a sign of times to come in the future?

If the once great midi program goes to hell, then what?

LEX

Nah... the Midi is still at the top of the heap I think... as much as it hasn't changed, the others are still playing catch up. But they better not fall asleep at the wheel... look at GM :(

If they just fix what they need to and add a few more Project Logical Editor commands... then everything would be great.

T

[Daryl]

I strongly disagree.
In my setups (and other studios I work for) N4 is more stable than N3.
It is also on those systems more efficient. But I think this is due to the bug-fix with ASIO serialization problems with many ASIO i/o. And I run many ASIO i/o.
I can run more tracks and plugins during 96 khz tracking sessions in N4 than N3. (This might also be because of the multi asio i/o fix in N4).

I have on the other hand seen N4 studios which without a doubt have more problems with N4 than they did with N3. Some I have managed to help, some not. It is usually plugins.
Its a fact N4, is WAY more picky when it comes to plugs than N3 was.

P
Well, when you are running a 17GB template with 60 VSTi Outputs, then I will listen to what you say. Otherwise your setup has no relevance to me at all.

D

[Daryl]

Yep, which is why Daryl stated N4 was less stable.

So now it comes down to this. Is Nuendo/Cubase for audio? or for midi?
Seems more like the audio side works better, but the midi has been all but lost.

LEX
With a purely mixing project I'm not getting crashes. However, with MIDI I had to roll back to 4.1.3 because of crashes and freezes, and even with this earlier version I still get some. I went for 2-3 years without a crash with N3.

D

[Daryl]

Nah... the Midi is still at the top of the heap I think... as much as it hasn't changed, the others are still playing catch up. But they better not fall asleep at the wheel... look at GM :(

If they just fix what they need to and add a few more Project Logical Editor commands... then everything would be great.

T
Yes, there are quite a few features that just need finishing, and then we'd all be happy. However, we might not then upgrade ever again. :>)

D

[neilwilkes]

Since I mostly work on an ID controller or a Euphonix MC I do not see the group related solo/mute problem either.
So for me N4 is much better than N3.

Here's hoping N5 will be better for everyone.

Best regards,
Pål Svennevig

I am also not getting anything like the same grief with Solo/Mute since I also got my ID controller. It just works, and works well..........unless I try to automate a mute state, in which case all hell breaks loose here as the state change is remembered when restarting a playback from left locator, but not the actual state itself. Easy workaround though - use fader automation instead of mute automation. Still, this should be a priority fix.
The only other major PITA I have with Mute/Solo is when trying to solo several tracks that are grouped together. For example:
Drum tracks as individual channels (Kick, Kick 2, Snare Top/Bottom, Hats, Toms OH etc) routed to several group tracks (Kick/Snare, Parallel Comp, Toms, Overheads) and all these routed to a single FX track as a sort of pseudo Drum VCA track). Hitting "Solo" on the VCA group often leaves out one or more of the related group tracks.
Cannot create a solid repro though.

29.97df video is a bugger, no doubt about it. Works fine in N3, but truncates in N4. Sometimes. Again, there is a workaround - re-encode to 30fps, and all is well. 29.97df is generally broken (you cannot do an AES31 16-bit export for CD burning with WaveLab if the project frame rate is 29.97df either as you get empty files & all markers are incorrectly placed) and needs to be fixed as the only alternative is to get our colonial cousins to drop NTSC & go to PAL (and that ain't ever gonna happen, sadly).

Here's looking forward to N5.

[Thonex]

It just works, and works well..........unless I try to automate a mute state, in which case all hell breaks loose ...

That statement in and of itself says it all IMO.

[TerryG]

N4 should be better than N3...

The fact that it's being debated so long after N4's release says it all.

The upgrade to N4 is available at JRRShop at a 15% Group discount, bringing the price down to $211.65 without the NEK... and I still won't buy it.
I sat on my unopened $199 separate dongle crossgrade version of C4 for 16 months before installing it this week... just out of bored curiosity.
At this point, why go through the frustration of getting familiar with N4's workarounds when N5 will be out soon with a whole new learning curve? Then again, I'll be waiting to hear better news from N5 before I drop the larger N3-N5 upgrade fee only to become another unpaid underappreciated unofficial post-release beta tester. If N5 isn't a solid release from day one, plenty of people will be on standby with their wallets closed.

Add exporting quirks to the previously mentioned problems of N4, and the only N4 convenience I'm missing from N3 is drag & drop inserts.

N3 will work just fine until the benefits of upgrading become obvious.

I don't mean to sound bitter, it's just that I've already seen this movie, and I know how it ends. ;)

[BJF]

I strongly disagree.
In my setups (and other studios I work for) N4 is more stable than N3.
It is also on those systems more efficient. But I think this is due to the bug-fix with ASIO serialization problems with many ASIO i/o. And I run many ASIO i/o.
I can run more tracks and plugins during 96 khz tracking sessions in N4 than N3. (This might also be because of the multi asio i/o fix in N4).

I have on the other hand seen N4 studios which without a doubt have more problems with N4 than they did with N3. Some I have managed to help, some not. It is usually plugins.
Its a fact N4, is WAY more picky when it comes to plugs than N3 was.

P

I'm afraid I have to side with Daryl here. From my experience of Nuendo, version 4 is much more unstable than version 3. The main reason I would choose 4 over 3 is the freer routing.

B

[psvennevig]

I understand that you guys like N3. Why, compared to N4 is what I don't get.
But you don't have to explain to me. I will still use N4.
And NO it is def. not unstable here. I work for 8-12 hours a day. no problems.
So do a lot of my post friends. Tons of TV series and films have been done.
The problem is (as said earlier) if you have instability in N4 which is caused by a non compatible plug, you either have to find a fix for it, or throw the plugin.
That I can understand being hard. But seeing how many (too many) that still insist on running crap plugins from VST5 and crap plugins from 2001, I do not feel with them :-)

In my world the world goes on. I had to loose some plugins when I went with N4, I do not regret it. Hey, I loose several plugins a year just because there are released much better plugins. I don't stick with all the old plugs then, I loose them.

When it comes to solo/mute problems of N4, I have already said that I work in such a manner that I very, very seldom see the problem.
When it comes to truncated video, I never work in 29.97 etc., so not a problem here.

All this of course subjective opinions, but it doesn't change the fact here in Norway. N4 is a success here, more than N3 ever were. Lots of new customers, a few switchers from PT even.

/pål

[TerryG]

Pål , it sounds like you excuse every flaw in N4 simply because they don't affect you. Well, for all of us who are or would be affected, there is no use to move to N4. It's really as simple as that.

There are a couple of old DirectX plugs that I like, but that has nothing to do with my decision in not moving to N4.... although I know it has been a large inconvenience to other people.

Mute/solo would affect me.
29.97 & video problems would affect me.
Exporting audio properly would affect me.
Midi accuracy would affect me.

Most of the problems introduced in N4 that aren't in N3 would affect me.

Regardless of my personal viewpoint, the fact that Nuendo 4 has these problems makes it very difficult to gain the respect it needs in order to flourish in two of the largest markets in the world. That fact alone affects EVERYONE here in varying degrees because the reputation of the program is not what it should be on the street. Nuendo's name recognition and reputation are important for everyone when clients are evaluating potential studios based on those factors.

All that being said, I'm happy it works for you and your friends in Norway. ;)

[psvennevig]

Some of the flaws might not affect me. So I may be a bit biased.
But I'm telling you. I'm just as eager to get bugs fixed as the next.

But I'm trying to voice my opinion from actually using N4 around the clock since it was released. For me (and many users I work with or know) its better than N3.

Its just my experience and opinion, not necessarily the fact.

Best,
Pål Svennevig

[Animus]

Some of the flaws might not affect me. So I may be a bit biased.
But I'm telling you. I'm just as eager to get bugs fixed as the next.

But I'm trying to voice my opinion from actually using N4 around the clock since it was released. For me (and many users I work with or know) its better than N3.

Its just my experience and opinion, not necessarily the fact.

Best,
Pål Svennevig

So look at it from the viewpoint if something you used was compromised. Like what if there was a bug where you couldn't record audio under a 1024 audio buffer as Steinberg screwed the engine up to the point that it required one of those fabled Steinberg rewrites. The workaround would be just to use external monitoring/Direct Monitoring of course but to me solo/mute is the same difference. Core function. Broke.

[TerryG]

Some of the flaws might not affect me. So I may be a bit biased.
But I'm telling you. I'm just as eager to get bugs fixed as the next.

But I'm trying to voice my opinion from actually using N4 around the clock since it was released. For me (and many users I work with or know) its better than N3.

Its just my experience and opinion, not necessarily the fact.

Best,
Pål Svennevig

Then, we both agree that people should be using what is best for them. ;)
Until N4 is fixed, or N5 provides obvious advantages, N3 is best for me.

[Captain Caveman]

Midi accuracy would affect me.

Are you talking about the "not sample accurate exporting"?

There is still a whole lot more accuracy and less jitter than physical MIDI interfaces and cables.

[LEX]

Are you talking about the "not sample accurate exporting"?

There is still a whole lot more accuracy and less jitter than physical MIDI interfaces and cables.

No. I believe he is speaking of the lack of sample accurate VSTi's that came with version 4.

LEX

[psvennevig]

So look at it from the viewpoint if something you used was compromised. Like what if there was a bug where you couldn't record audio under a 1024 audio buffer as Steinberg screwed the engine up to the point that it required one of those fabled Steinberg rewrites. The workaround would be just to use external monitoring/Direct Monitoring of course but to me solo/mute is the same difference. Core function. Broke.

To me the fact that N3/N4/Nx do not work at really low latencies in OSX is such a BUG.
And I have nearly tore down the walls at Steinberg to get it fixed.

And of course I clearly understand that to those that are hit with the solo/mute automation issue are angry...

/P

[TerryG]

Are you talking about the "not sample accurate exporting"?

There is still a whole lot more accuracy and less jitter than physical MIDI interfaces and cables.

No... but I've read about that.

I just installed C4 last week... and I just spent an hour fixing random sections of an imported N3 midi keyboard track that mysteriously relocated parts of itself 1/32 of a beat ahead of where it's supposed to be.
A basic import like this is way too simple of a function to immediately find a problem and need to solve...

If the VSTi's in C4 have their own issues (as I've read), I'm sure I'm in for even more fun.

[Ade]

I have imported a lot of material from N3 to N4. To make matters even more interesting, the N3 stuff was all Mac. The N4 was all transferred to PC.
I have never seen midi move on an import. There must have been some component that was flipped.
I would be really grateful if you could upload the N3/C3 midi track so that I can see it playing correctly in N3 and, subsequently, fail in N4.
Is that possible?

[TerryG]

Sorry Ade, my EULA restricts me from disassembling and distributing intellectual property.

[Ade]

Sorry Ade, my EULA restricts me from disassembling and distributing intellectual property.

OK - can you provide any kind of material that would demonstrate what will otherwise be purely anecdotal?
In fact, for the 'greater good', you may consider randomizing all the events in a rogue part, both in time and pitch. That would make the material unrecognisable as a specific composition but will allow examination of the phenomena you experienced.

[Animus]

OK - can you provide any kind of material that would demonstrate what will otherwise be purely anecdotal?
In fact, for the 'greater good', you may consider randomizing all the events in a rogue part, both in time and pitch. That would make the material unrecognisable as a specific composition but will allow examination of the phenomena you experienced.

Sounds like a good idea.

[TerryG]

OK - can you provide any kind of material that would demonstrate what will otherwise be purely anecdotal?
In fact, for the 'greater good', you may consider randomizing all the events in a rogue part, both in time and pitch. That would make the material unrecognisable as a specific composition but will allow examination of the phenomena you experienced.

So, you're prepared to pre-analyze a random rogue part of a complexity significant enough to induce error that at the same time is comprehensible enough allow you to identify any random errors produced within a reasonable time frame so as to not be cumbersome?

These parameters negate the necessity of me providing data that would be of any more relevance than what you can create yourself.

[Ade]

Terry, if I read your post correctly, you claimed that a PART had moved by 1/32. If that is the case then it will not matter whether you move its contents around.
On the other hand, if you are now claiming that the part was in the correct location but its contents had shifted, that's another story.
Regardless, it should be possible for you to supply something which has all the attributes of the problem part with actually being the problem part. No?

[Ade]

So, you're prepared to pre-analyze a random rogue part of a complexity significant enough to induce error that at the same time is comprehensible enough allow you to identify any random errors produced within a reasonable time frame so as to not be cumbersome?

And, yes, that would be a piece of cake. I have two systems running synchronously - with N3, C4 and N4 on board.

[TerryG]

...if you are now claiming that the part was in the correct location but its contents had shifted, that's another story.

Yes, this is more accurate. The part was where it should be, not overlapping with adjacent parts. The contents were shifted 1/32 beat forward. This happened on 4 parts (up to 16 bar phrases) within the same midi track of a 5 minute song.

It's plausible that this was human error shifting those parts before a save was made in N3 (although that would appear very odd in that those contents would have had to be selected and shifted simultaneously, and the likelihood they were all selected for editing when they exist in quite separate sections of the song is doubtful since that's not the way I work). Not to mention the fact that the midi parts hadn't been edited for months, and everything is right in N3.... so much for the "shifted before saved" possibility.

Given that, I can only view this incident as a random nuisance until such a time as I may experience a repeat occurrance and then provide a repro.
My post was not to call attention to a bug, just a frustration I experienced at literally my introduction to using C4.

[Animus]

I have had the contents shifting before happen, and especially when copying parts from one area of a project to later in the timeline.

[Ade]

Now might be a good time to list the conditions which users can apply, wittingly or unwittingly, which could cause such a thing to happen, such as sizing moves contents, or being time locked when moving events over tempo changes.
There are more, but it makes sense to examine the possibilities for human error when immortalizing, on a forum, the possibility of import failure at this fundamental level.

[LEX]

I have had this happen as well.

I don't know what "human error" could be when you:

Open/click file name/ok.

Nuendo 2 projects are completely screwed up.

XML export doesn't work either.

So how is it that several users experience this, but you don't?

Sorry to be so condescending, but why is it that every time multiple users experience problems with N4/C4, you are there to defend it like it doesn't happen or it is user error?

I am just curious.
Even Pal had to admit that since he doesn't do midi, he couldn't comment on the stability.
And there are several users here who have stated that stability in N3 was better than N4.

LEX

[Ade]

Stop fighting.

[Ade]

If you can provide a repro, that's useful.
It makes total sense to examine the possibility that some human error has been made. I refuse to defend myself for daring to suggest that all avenues be explored before defining a 'bug'.
Stacy described a completely different set of circumstances. He moved a part.... it was not about import.

[LEX]

Sorry bro, this isn't a fight.

Just wanted to know if there was a reason you were discounting other users claims.
Maybe you have never experienced any of it, that is cool.

But other people have so let's get back to figuring out why?

LEX

[TAFKAT]

Terry , Stacy,

This may or may not be related.

I have had numerous issues with MIDI on numerous clients systems when moving from V3 to V4 using the identical hardware , interestingly with MIDI events being recorded ahead or behind the beat , even tho they were played in time.

In the past it was related to the emulated ports issue , with V4 the fix was simply to enable time stamp. I am wondering if it is a factor with what you guys are experiencing with the moving and import.

Worth a shot.

[Ade]

Sorry bro, this isn't a fight.

Just wanted to know if there was a reason you were discounting other users claims.
Maybe you have never experienced any of it, that is cool.

But other people have so let's get back to figuring out why?

LEX

OK, please find any post where I have done so. If I have done so, I unequivocally apologise. If not.... well...

[Ade]

Is it worth moving this particular subject to a dedicated topic?
So far there are different circumstances which lead to a similar failure.

1. Terry's import of v3 to v4 which he thinks may be a 'random nuisance.'

2. Stacy's moving of parts on the timeline.

3. Lex complains of disastrous imports from v2 to v4 which are 'completely screwed up.'

I would suggest, and it's just a suggestion, that in order for the topic not to descend into a free for all, that each of those are approached completely separately.

[TerryG]

Ade, this would indeed be a positive change from N.com in that someone is actually proactive and willing to take a look at something without having to beg...

But, regarding my incident, I've already fixed the parts.

I also understand LEX's peeve that a typical "go to" rationale from Steinberg support is human error more often than not.

Vin, I'm not dealing with emulated ports, if I understand your definition.

I'm not too eager to spend much time attempting to reproduce import errors.
If I can make it happen within an hour, fine.

Given the fact that C4 has been out for so long, I tend to believe my import incident was an anomaly since nobody immediately identified it as a known issue.

[Ade]

I also understand LEX's peeve that a typical "go to" rationale from Steinberg support is human error more often than not.


And what place did that have in our conversation?
Anyway... it appears that anomaly you experienced may have not been typical.



But, regarding my incident, I've already fixed the parts.

That's great. If you ever find the version which you imported from (I imagine that you didn't overwrite the original) and you are interested in examining whether this was a one off or more than that, I'd be more than willing to test an import.

[TerryG]

And what place did that have in our conversation?
LEX has known issues.
It's a bug created by Steinberg that he can reproduce regularly. ;)



... damn, that was funny on several levels.
I'll no doubt be paying for it with another late phone call.

[Ade]

LEX has known issues.

I would never deny it.

[TAFKAT]

Vin, I'm not dealing with emulated ports, if I understand your definition.



Hey Terry,

Sorry Mate, I wasn't clear enough...

In N3 and earlier , there were instances where if the MIDI was not recorded as played , it was often the fault of the emulated MIDI ports and there were some steps to correct it by enabling some MIDI related .dll's, that were not not active by default, and adjusting some settings. However the basic functionality in how emulated MIDI ports were handled change in seq4 , so when confronted with the issue of the incorrect MIDI timing on various and numerous MIDI interfaces/Controllers, the fix was to enable Time Stamp.

If you haven't already enabled Time Stamp, it wouldn't hurt to do so.

BTW : What MIDI Interface are you using ?


Given the fact that C4 has been out for so long, I tend to believe my import incident was an anomaly since nobody immediately identified it as a known issue.

I wouldn't dismiss it so easily, there is nothing presented here to state that it was some random anomaly on your part, and also remember who we are talking about in regards to "known issues" and how they are designated.. ;-)

There are so many odd MIDI quirks that we have learned to navigate, some don't even bother posting. I had a bizarre issue with ghost sustain events in N3 , which was then confirmed by numerous others and also confirmed in Seq4 , but it isn't an official "known issue" , simply because I didn't make enough noise about it.

And no , there is no repo , it was a random issue with an imported song from an earlier version .., seems to be an echo in here... :-)

[The Guru]

There's a Snap issue where if you have it enabled and click EXACTLY on a bar line to set the cursor, even though it says it's on the bar line, zooming in shows it's not. This may be the issue some see on importing and copy/pasting parts.

[TerryG]

There's a Snap issue where if you have it enabled and click EXACTLY on a bar line to set the cursor, even though it says it's on the bar line, zooming in shows it's not. This may be the issue some see on importing and copy/pasting parts.

Ahh... so SNAP has limitations on its degree of precision?

I guess programmers would argue that midi timing needn't be perfect as its at least as accurate as human timing when tracking audio... and for the past 20 years there's been a desire for "humanization" of midi timing regarding drums anyway.

I know, rhetorical... :cool:

[TerryG]

Hey Terry,

Sorry Mate, I wasn't clear enough...

In N3 and earlier , there were instances where if the MIDI was not recorded as played , it was often the fault of the emulated MIDI ports and there were some steps to correct it by enabling some MIDI related .dll's, that were not not active by default, and adjusting some settings. However the basic functionality in how emulated MIDI ports were handled change in seq4 , so when confronted with the issue of the incorrect MIDI timing on various and numerous MIDI interfaces/Controllers, the fix was to enable Time Stamp.

If you haven't already enabled Time Stamp, it wouldn't hurt to do so.

BTW : What MIDI Interface are you using ?



I wouldn't dismiss it so easily, there is nothing presented here to state that it was some random anomaly on your part, and also remember who we are talking about in regards to "known issues" and how they are designated.. ;-)

There are so many odd MIDI quirks that we have learned to navigate, some don't even bother posting. I had a bizarre issue with ghost sustain events in N3 , which was then confirmed by numerous others and also confirmed in Seq4 , but it isn't an official "known issue" , simply because I didn't make enough noise about it.

And no , there is no repo , it was a random issue with an imported song from an earlier version .., seems to be an echo in here... :-)

My RME HDSP 9652 comes with 2 midi I/O, so it's not emulated. One to a drum machine, the other to a digital mixer for generic remote.
I also use a USB keyboard, but that's for rough ideas that I clean up inside the editor after the fact because I suck at playing keys...
I should just send those ideas to you. ;)

[TAFKAT]

My RME HDSP 9652 comes with 2 midi I/O, so it's not emulated. One to a drum machine, the other to a digital mixer for generic remote.
I also use a USB keyboard, but that's for rough ideas that I clean up inside the editor after the fact because I suck at playing keys...
I should just send those ideas to you. ;)

Hey Terry,

The issues that I resolved using the time stamp setting with N4 were not reporting emulated ports either, the behavior was however consistent to the old emulated port issue.

A quick test you can do is play a simple keyboard part on the beat and check whether the notes are recording as played, if they are, then you are in the clear.

If you get a chance, can you please select the time stamp setting, and then re-import the session and see if it makes any difference..

Re helping you with some keys idea, I'd love to mate, mind you I can't even find the time to finish any of my own stuff lately.. :-(

Stay Metal \,,/

[The Guru]

Timestamp vs. Emulated MIDI ports depends on which MIDI interface is used. Lanter at Cubase.net has a site that lists the problem devices and which setting is needed for each.

Presonus is a device that needs System Timestamp, MIDISports need Emulated ports.

[psvennevig]

Yep,

The only thing to be careful with. After V4.1 you shouldn't mess with the midiport filter any longer.
The new MIDI engine in C4/N4 should detect that Midisport runs "emulated".
Only tweak should be "time stamp" or not.

P

[TAFKAT]

Yep,

The only thing to be careful with. After V4.1 you shouldn't mess with the midiport filter any longer.
The new MIDI engine in C4/N4 should detect that Midisport runs "emulated".
Only tweak should be "time stamp" or not.

P


In N3 and earlier , there were instances where if the MIDI was not recorded as played , it was often the fault of the emulated MIDI ports and there were some steps to correct it by enabling some MIDI related .dll's, that were not not active by default, and adjusting some settings. However the basic functionality in how emulated MIDI ports were handled change in seq4 , so when confronted with the issue of the incorrect MIDI timing on various and numerous MIDI interfaces/Controllers, the fix was to enable Time Stamp.


Hmmm, didn't I say that in a round about, but more detailed fashion.. ?? LOL

[psvennevig]

Hmmm, didn't I say that in a round about, but more detailed fashion.. ?? LOL

Yes You did.
But someone (clearly) did not notice. So I said it again :-)


Pål

[TAFKAT]

Yes You did.
But someone (clearly) did not notice. So I said it again :-)

.... clearly... ;-)